Edge paint

[charon]

Maybe one of you minds sharing the secret of good clean edge paint with me? I spent the last two weekends trying to figure that out myself and the only thing I learned is how hard it is to peel that stuff off my edges once I screwed it. I'm working a lot of thin leather (1-2 oz) and sometimes it's hard to seal the gap between the 2 sewn pieces by just burnishing it. So I thought I'd give edge paint a try. I tried Giardini black and Fiebings Edge Kote all wit hthe same result: I't wobble and wonky and far from a clean, smooth surface no matter how many layers I apply. What I did is the following:

Glue the pieces together - sad them plane - bevel the edges round - (optional) burnishing - apply edge paint (I used a pencil, one of those edge paint appliers that look like paddles and a scratch awl). Firstly there's no way to get a clean line between the leather  and the edge paint, you always get more down at one point and less at another so the line is always wobble. And on top of the edge ... it's a total mess. I'm currently at work and cannot attach any images, but I'm sure most of you can imagine what I'm talking about. I read that you can use a modified french soldering iron for the cost of a small house to heat treat it but seriously that's ridiculous for that price, they can't be serious...

I also read you don't need to heat treat the Giardini stuff but I can't do it (apparently). Most of the youtube tutorials you find use some 9-10oz unbevelled leather, maybe it's easier with that but for the thin leather I use with a round bevelled edge it's impossible (at least for me). So if anyone has that magic trick to get it look nice please have a heart and share the information. I hate throwing stuff around my workshop but we had a lot leather flying around recently... 

[immiketoo]

Are you using the applicator tool that looks like a cone?  I bevel and slick my edges before applying edge coat, but I sand them lightly after slicking to give the edge paint a place to stick.  Its easy to get a clean edge using the applicator.

 

[Ferg]

I don't slick the edges, I do sand the edges. I apply a coat of clear sealer, let it dry overnight, sand with 600 grit, apply the first coat of finish, sand it until I see no shiny areas, then apply a second coat of finish. No hot tools or anything. I have three or four applicators. The cone shaped one is by far the easiest and best to use IMHO.

Ferg

[charon]

Thanks Mike and Ferg for your suggestions.I didn't use the applicator that looks like a cone but the sharpened pencil I normally use has exactly the same shape. I tried applying it with or without slicking and the problem is not that it's not sticking, the problem is that from the bevelling I have a half round shaped edge and I can't figure out how to get a straight edge line at the border. Also, whenever I raise my applicator the paint forms a drop-like shape that's hard to get rid of so the top of my edge is wobbly as well. I'll post a picture when I get home...  

Edited May 14, 2018 by charon

[immiketoo]

You need that applicator as it has grooves cut in it.  You can lay down a perfectly straight line with it easily.  A pencil will just smear it around.

 

[KingsCountyLeather]

@immiketoo is right. Your problem is the applicator. 

[immiketoo]

2 minutes ago, KingsCountyLeather said:

@immiketoo is right. Your problem is the applicator. 

And by applicator, he means the tool, not the person applying it

[Mattsbagger]

2 hours ago, immiketoo said:

You need that applicator as it has grooves cut in it.  You can lay down a perfectly straight line with it easily.  A pencil will just smear it around.

 

Yep that cheap little roller tool from Tandy works very well.

[GoldenKnight]

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/292384444955

I bought a few of these. Just like one I got from Tandy on sale, but here it is less $$ and in various colors.  Probably the same maker. The only downside is the 1 to 4 week delay on delivery.

Edited May 14, 2018 by GoldenKnight

[KingsCountyLeather]

4 hours ago, immiketoo said:

And by applicator, he means the tool, not the person applying it

Who said so? 

[charon]

4 hours ago, immiketoo said:

And by applicator, he means the tool, not the person applying it

In my case its both I think 

3 hours ago, GoldenKnight said:

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/292384444955

I bought a few of these. Just like one I got from Tandy on sale, but here it is less $$ and in various colors.  Probably the same maker. The only downside is the 1 to 4 week delay on delivery.

Since you are all clnfident that its the wrong tool I ordered one of these, thanks for the tip these cost next to nothing and I don’t have a Tandy around here...

[motocouture]

For what it’s worth, I don’t bevel my edges. I follow a very similar process to @Ferg, and I find the sanding gives as much gentle ‘rounding’ as I need. I find that without bevelling, the surface tension of the edge paint combined with the sharper edge of the leather helps keep a nice straight line. 

Then again, I also learn something new at this every day, too....

[RockyAussie]

I do use a variety of different methods for applying edge coats and I have found for me, for small product pieces a foam piece trimmed down like in the picture below works very well. The advantages are that by loading the edging up in the foam and wiping the edge off on the egg cup edge it holds plenty enough to not need re dipping constantly but has a broad enough surface to stop from getting the edging from going over the top. I made a video for the tube awhile ago that shows how I use this technique for doing belt edges. Note that the edging can be watered down by up to 10% to help give a better flow if needed.Although I sometimes use a soldering iron that is temperature controlled by a light dimmer switch it is not always necessary as some quick sanding between coats will often work as well.I have also put a few pics up of products I've done using the above method. Here is the video link-

Hope that is of some help

Brian

 

[BDAZ]

I take a wool applicator that has been used with USMC black and allowed to dry, slice the end off and slice a flat side and it works like a champ. Stiff enough to keep paint on the edge but holds enough for a decent run down the edge. Price is right.

[Dunluce]

11 hours ago, motocouture said:

For what it’s worth, I don’t bevel my edges. I follow a very similar process to @Ferg, and I find the sanding gives as much gentle ‘rounding’ as I need. I find that without bevelling, the surface tension of the edge paint combined with the sharper edge of the leather helps keep a nice straight line. 

Then again, I also learn something new at this every day, too....

If I remember rightly the Giardini booklet and video actually state this in that you should not bevel the edges but have a straight cut.

[KingsCountyLeather]

On 14/5/2018 at 11:40 PM, charon said:

In my case its both I think 

Since you are all clnfident that its the wrong tool I ordered one of these, thanks for the tip these cost next to nothing and I don’t have a Tandy around here...

Looks like Giardini are charging €24.90 for one of those roller pens.

[immiketoo]

You can get them on eBay for 12 bucks.

[RockyAussie]

6 hours ago, Dunluce said:

If I remember rightly the Giardini booklet and video actually state this in that you should not bevel the edges but have a straight cut.

On thin edged products this can work OK but is more difficult to keep the edging from going over the edges. It does take several coats and sanding to build up the rounded bead if going that way on thicker edges. The extra coats of paint are not as strong and long lasting as a rounded off edge with fewer coats. With the costs of labour I think Giardini are making mileage of the fact that with edging machines it is quicker to just build up the paint and save the extra preparation sanding time. For those new to edgecoat edging, I warn not to slick the edge smooth without further sanding before applying the paint as it can peel of in a long strip fairly easily. I don't bother with any slicking at all myself as I want to be sure of maximum adhesion. Lastly thick coats in time with most edge paints crack up a bit and are more noticeable than the thinner ironed in coats.

Brian

[Wedgetail]

I've not had much experience with painting edges compared to these other members, but did have a crack at using the pencil once or twice.

The key difference between a pencil and a cone shaped applicator with grooves in it is that the applicator rolls. If you don't roll the pencil too, you'll just end up smudging paint around... that and the grooves store more paint for longer and smoother runs.

But for both, if you are getting a bead of paint on the applicator that looks like a drop, you've got too much paint and will end up with a big glob at the start which will give you a wobbly line for sure.

Less paint, roll the pencil along the edge. Those are my tips

Now I do have a fair amount of experience with painting models and miniatures. So if you want to have a crack at using a small paint brush (good for corners mostly) try this: Thin the paint down a bit, load the brush so that it gets the paint right into the middle of the bristles (that's where the paint should be carried by a brush, not on the outside bristles). Wipe off excess on a cloth or paper towel so it is not globbed on the bristles, and use the side of the brush, not the tip, to apply the paint... think about applying the paint by using the side of the brush at an angle like you would use to sharpen a knife. For me, a brush is best for tight spots.

[Matt S]

4 hours ago, immiketoo said:

You can get them on eBay for 12 bucks.

I use a 50p pencil, or a £2 scratch awl.

[Ferg]

It really doesn't matter to me what folks decide to use for edge painting. I do know from experience, the grooved roller coaters are the best for small shop use.

If I was doing belts like some folks do, I might try some other method. I am not bragging, simply saying how simple this can be, I can do the edge on a round coaster in less than 60 seconds.

Lightly sand edges keeping them as square as you can, one coat sealer, sand, one coat finish, sand, second coat of finish, DONE!

Ferg

Edited May 18, 2018 by Ferg

[RockyAussie]

Thanks to my wife's fantastic photography skills and the new light tent I built, I am able to show a few of the 100 croc dress belts I finished off yesterday. Other than the tips which I sanded off to shape I was able to do them with NO sanding due to thin edge and the use of a couple of machines. The second picture shows an edging machine that I use for the belt tips and wallets and such and the next is a you tube  link to an edging machine I made for the sides of straps. I was able to feed the keepers through with the same machine and method as well. Note in the small edging machine picture I am showing a brush that I replaced with a piece of aluminium to get a finer more consistent coat.

 

[BDAZ]

Brilliant Harry!  What paint do you use in your machine?

How do you catch the crocs? Stand on a beach with dead chickens in your hands??

 

Bob

[RockyAussie]

18 minutes ago, BDAZ said:

Brilliant Harry!  What paint do you use in your machine?

I use a couple ...for black it is OMAC Lux semi matt OM 357556 which I think may be the same as Giardini maybe, and for colours I mostly use Ares (Italia)  S.R.l -AR 6350 which Neutro Denso Lucido which should be the same as Fenice AR 6350 to which I mix in pigments to get whatever colour I want.

For the crocs all sorts of bait can work...lawn mowers ...Coca cola....chain saws...

[niakulah]

On 5/14/2018 at 10:22 PM, charon said:

Maybe one of you minds sharing the secret of good clean edge paint with me? I spent the last two weekends trying to figure that out myself and the only thing I learned is how hard it is to peel that stuff off my edges once I screwed it. I'm working a lot of thin leather (1-2 oz) and sometimes it's hard to seal the gap between the 2 sewn pieces by just burnishing it. So I thought I'd give edge paint a try. I tried Giardini black and Fiebings Edge Kote all wit hthe same result: I't wobble and wonky and far from a clean, smooth surface no matter how many layers I apply. What I did is the following:

Glue the pieces together - sad them plane - bevel the edges round - (optional) burnishing - apply edge paint (I used a pencil, one of those edge paint appliers that look like paddles and a scratch awl). Firstly there's no way to get a clean line between the leather  and the edge paint, you always get more down at one point and less at another so the line is always wobble. And on top of the edge ... it's a total mess. I'm currently at work and cannot attach any images, but I'm sure most of you can imagine what I'm talking about. I read that you can use a modified french soldering iron for the cost of a small house to heat treat it but seriously that's ridiculous for that price, they can't be serious...

I also read you don't need to heat treat the Giardini stuff but I can't do it (apparently). Most of the youtube tutorials you find use some 9-10oz unbevelled leather, maybe it's easier with that but for the thin leather I use with a round bevelled edge it's impossible (at least for me). So if anyone has that magic trick to get it look nice please have a heart and share the information. I hate throwing stuff around my workshop but we had a lot leather flying around recently... 

Not an expert by any means, but I did manage to get a decent edge using Giardini semi-dense and dense paints through a lot of trial and error.

Applicator - Tried the rolling applicator that came with the kit, a round awl, a pencil, and a paint box with brass rollers. Could not get it to apply smoothly with any of those except for the paint box, but that still had high/thick spots. I had NO prior experience so it could definitely have been a problem with the applicator, the person

In the end I settled on this applicator. Also available from DLS and RMLS.

 

For prep, I bevel and sand the edges up to 400 grit. I just bought this as well and I think it works very well to give me a nice rounded edge. I know that Giardini recommends that you apply it to a rough edge and then sand in between but I could never get it to be as smooth as I would like it to be.

 

I have a leather wrapped knife that has 3 coats of Giardini semi-dense on its edges. After painting I carried it around in my pocket for about 2 weeks just to see if the paint would come off. That was about 6 months ago and I haven't had any issues with the paint peeling so far. I'm at work and I don't have a pic of it so I'll try to snap one and post it here after I get home.