Etsy update, prohibited items

[spurdude101]

I got an email about upcoming terms of service on prohibited items with the Etsy market place where I sell, among other things, holsters . In part it stated " No firearms, or accessories that attach to firearms"  Pretty vague in my opinion. I contacted them and asked if this applied to holsters and of course only got back a standard form  which did not address my question, So I guess I wait and see if they flag my holsters.

Edited May 14, 2021 by spurdude101

[Tugadude]

I doubt that they could justify that.  In my opinion that is going way over the top if they do.  After all, holsters are also used by hair stylists to hold their scissors and such, people who work in hardware stores to hold measuring tape, box knife, etc.  It is a shame that they didn't just answer your question directly.  

 

[YinTx]

Sounds like they need a competing platform that doesn't hawk imported low cost mass produced items as "handmade in the USA," and does not restrict items related to our rights to keep and bear arms.  Surprised such a platform is not already in existence.   Or maybe it is and I don't know about it yet?

YinTx

[Hardrada]

Got a similar BS message. Apparently slings are "gun parts".

Quote

Etsy prohibits the sale of weapons, which includes guns and certain gun parts. This policy is informed by U.S. Federal law, international laws, and also safety regulations. You can read more about our policy on weapons in Our House Rules.

As of May 25, 2021, we will no longer accommodate any gun parts or accessories that attach to a firearm. We take protecting our marketplace very seriously

So, if your hand-crafted eagle feather attaches to a firearm somehow, it's now a "gun part". Dangerous!

Sounds like a whole cartload of woketardness to me.

Seriously considering pulling my Etsy account.

Not like the 'store' is selling a lot: all I've ever sold there has been one item: A rifle sling!

Edited May 14, 2021 by Hardrada

[McCarthy]

I don't see how they can stop you from selling leather fashion accessories that attach to a belt. Not your fault if a customer decides to cram his evil, patriarchal, possibly racist firearm in there.

[TonyV]

I don't see how a holster attaches to a firearm.  

[hashtagartz]

4 hours ago, McCarthy said:

I don't see how they can stop you from selling leather fashion accessories that attach to a belt. Not your fault if a customer decides to cram his evil, patriarchal, possibly racist firearm in there.

lol I love this comment!

[JLSleather]

Cutesy is all "global" and "feely" - always has been. These days, pastors are arrested for saying marriage is between a man and a woman, and people have careers ended for refusing to call some guy "she".  

ALL of that is insane, but i still AGREE with their right to allow  OR  NOT ALLOW the sale of any and all goods on THEIR site.

 

[YinTx]

Yep, they can do what they want with their platform, this is supposed to be a free country.  As long as other platforms are allowed the same courtesy.  So what is out there allowing fellow craftspeople to sell their wares without such restrictions?

YinTx

[Hardrada]

2 hours ago, YinTx said:

Yep, they can do what they want with their platform, this is supposed to be a free country.  As long as other platforms are allowed the same courtesy.  So what is out there allowing fellow craftspeople to sell their wares without such restrictions?

YinTx

I'd think the smart move would be to have one's own online store. Alas, if Shopify goes woke too it'd be the end of many of such stores.

Only other option would be a fully independent online store that wouldn't depend on third-party platforms running from a VPS or better, but those are not easy to set up or maintain. Or cheap.

[Klara]

Do you produce and sell amounts so big that you need automatic order processing? Otherwise, put up a website (with an independent hoster) that shows what you can do and tell customers to contact you by email. Cost is next to nothing, moneywise, time is another problem. 

Incidentally, I don't consider holsters as "attaching" to firearms - one wouldn't say that a tool box attaches to a hammer, would one?

 

[PastorBob]

So far, I still have several listed on Etsy and don't know that I have received a cease and desist....could have ended up in spam or trash filter though.

[Hardrada]

2 hours ago, PastorBob said:

So far, I still have several listed on Etsy and don't know that I have received a cease and desist....could have ended up in spam or trash filter though.

I'd suggest checking those spam folders.

They're being proactive, not waiting for members to comply. I just received this to-day:

Quote

This is a message from Etsy regarding your shop XXXXX. We're writing to let you know we've removed one or more of your listings in accordance with our Prohibited Items Policy. We’ve refunded you the fees for the listing(s) we removed. You can see your deactivated listings here [link removed].

Etsy prohibits the sale of weapons, and this includes all gun parts and accessories that attach to a firearm. This policy is informed by U.S. Federal law, international laws, and also safety regulations. You can read more about our policy on weapons in Our House Rules.

We periodically revisit our policies and make updates to our enforcement in accordance with industry standards, laws, and regulations.

All sellers and listings in our marketplace are subject to the same policies, which you can review here.

We have begun removing these items from our marketplace, but this is a process that takes time. As a result, you may still come across listings for these kinds of items in the marketplace.

Etsy will be unable to offer Seller Protection for transactions that involve a prohibited item, so if you've received any sales for an item that violates Etsy's Prohibited Items Policy, we ask that you please refund those buyers and cancel any orders that have not yet been shipped.
 

(Boldface mine.)

 

Yeah, like I am gonna refund them.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Hardrada

[Charley1]

Looking at Etsy's "our house rules" it says holsters are not prohibited.

 

Quote

Storage items for guns may be sold as long as they are not affixed to the gun in any way. Some examples include:

Cases and racks

Holsters

 

[chiefjason]

Here is the response I got after a very terse response to the initial non answer I received.  All of my holster listings are still up.  

 

Hello,

Thanks for checking in about this. 

As of May 25, 2021, we will no longer accommodate any gun parts or accessories that attach to a firearm, including, but not limited to:

• Slings
• Grips
• Scopes
• Stocks

These kinds of items will be prohibited, regardless of whether or not they are permanently attached to or alter the functionality or lethality of the firearm.

Holsters, racks, cases and other storage accessories that are not physically attached to a firearm may still be sold as long as they otherwise meet Etsy’s policies.

Best,
Ian
Etsy Marketplace Integrity
 

 

[chuck123wapati]

On 6/12/2021 at 7:21 PM, chiefjason said:

Here is the response I got after a very terse response to the initial non answer I received.  All of my holster listings are still up.  

 

Hello,

Thanks for checking in about this. 

As of May 25, 2021, we will no longer accommodate any gun parts or accessories that attach to a firearm, including, but not limited to:

• Slings
• Grips
• Scopes
• Stocks

These kinds of items will be prohibited, regardless of whether or not they are permanently attached to or alter the functionality or lethality of the firearm.

Holsters, racks, cases and other storage accessories that are not physically attached to a firearm may still be sold as long as they otherwise meet Etsy’s policies.

Best,
Ian
Etsy Marketplace Integrity
 

 

So now i guess its up to you if you continue to do business with a company that doesn't believe in the Bill of rights or your rights as a US citizen. I know I've lost money but dumped Fakebook because of it never used etsy.

[PastorBob]

40 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

So now i guess its up to you if you continue to do business with a company that doesn't believe in the Bill of rights or your rights as a US citizen. I know I've lost money but dumped Fakebook because of it never used etsy.

Do you have a site or is your sales just word of mouth?  IF you have a site, I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.  Thanks

[chuck123wapati]

2 hours ago, PastorBob said:

Do you have a site or is your sales just word of mouth?  IF you have a site, I wouldn't mind taking a look at it.  Thanks

No i sell locally mostly by word o mouth now there are also a couple consignment shops i put stuff in. lol, i sell all kinds of stuff, wood work, knives and leather goods mostly. But i'm not trying to make a living just adding to a retirement. It really sucks to have major companies put people in the situation we have now.

[Hardrada]

4 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

So now i guess its up to you if you continue to do business with a company that doesn't believe in the Bill of rights or your rights as a US citizen. I know I've lost money but dumped Fakebook because of it never used etsy.

Yep, that's what I did: I dumped Etsy. Their "slings ban" is just a ridiculous piece of woketardness. Not even in Canada, which has some of the most stringent gun laws in the world, are slings a forbidden or even restricted item—anyone can buy them; only for the purchase of actual guns or ammunition is a PAL required.

As for holsters, they're not sellable in Canada: people are not allowed to carry guns here.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Hardrada

[chiefjason]

19 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

So now i guess its up to you if you continue to do business with a company that doesn't believe in the Bill of rights or your rights as a US citizen. I know I've lost money but dumped Fakebook because of it never used etsy.

 

If you dig into the issue it's kind of convoluted.  And then they just went overboard in response.  They were allowing things to sell on their platform that actually were against their terms.  No one is hand making magazines and actual firearms accessories like lights and such.  Apparently they ignored it.  Then some consumer group got wind of it and made a fuss about it.  That's when they got stupid and overreacted by banning things they actually built categories for.  Most of the stuff they banned is just stupid woketarianism and SJW feel good BS with zero grounding in reality.  

 

I'm not fooling myself thinking a lot of management would prefer anyone like me not be there.  And they may move on that at some point.  Etsy is also responsible for most of my sales now that I'm off ebay for different reasons.  And doing this on the side I just don't have time to deal with my own website.  I've barely got time to deal with what I have now.  

 

So I'll take a small bit of pleasure in using their platform to sell things that they hate and doing my best to help arm the country. 

If I had to stop doing business for those reasons I wouldn't be in business at all.  I have lots of businesses that support the 2A, since I'm using them to make holsters.  But probably more of them that I have to use don't.  And if you think building your own site would free you from that, you are in for an expensive lesson in providing all the hardware yourself, or having to go through Amazon web services or using a business that uses AWS.  You can't be online and get away from it, you just have to push through it and deal with it when you can't avoid it.  

 

BTW, fun fact.  Glock had my store shut down on ebay.  How's that for 2A friendly?  

Edited June 18, 2021 by chiefjason

[chuck123wapati]

5 hours ago, chiefjason said:

 

If you dig into the issue it's kind of convoluted.  And then they just went overboard in response.  They were allowing things to sell on their platform that actually were against their terms.  No one is hand making magazines and actual firearms accessories like lights and such.  Apparently they ignored it.  Then some consumer group got wind of it and made a fuss about it.  That's when they got stupid and overreacted by banning things they actually built categories for.  Most of the stuff they banned is just stupid woketarianism and SJW feel good BS with zero grounding in reality.  

 

I'm not fooling myself thinking a lot of management would prefer anyone like me not be there.  And they may move on that at some point.  Etsy is also responsible for most of my sales now that I'm off ebay for different reasons.  And doing this on the side I just don't have time to deal with my own website.  I've barely got time to deal with what I have now.  

 

So I'll take a small bit of pleasure in using their platform to sell things that they hate and doing my best to help arm the country. 

If I had to stop doing business for those reasons I wouldn't be in business at all.  I have lots of businesses that support the 2A, since I'm using them to make holsters.  But probably more of them that I have to use don't.  And if you think building your own site would free you from that, you are in for an expensive lesson in providing all the hardware yourself, or having to go through Amazon web services or using a business that uses AWS.  You can't be online and get away from it, you just have to push through it and deal with it when you can't avoid it.  

 

BTW, fun fact.  Glock had my store shut down on ebay.  How's that for 2A friendly?  

There's plenty of logic in your reasoning i wish you all the good luck friend.

[Sheilajeanne]

6 hours ago, chiefjason said:

BTW, fun fact.  Glock had my store shut down on ebay.  How's that for 2A friendly?  

WTF??? WHY???  

[kgg]

21 hours ago, Hardrada said:

As for holsters, they're not sellable in Canada: people are not allowed to carry guns here.

I agree that the days of open carry have long passed but holsters are still a saleable item in Canada as you need to have one to properly contain your gun on any firing range.

kgg

[chiefjason]

1 hour ago, Sheilajeanne said:

WTF??? WHY???  

 

They were claiming brand integrity.  What it amounted to was that Glock wants to control, and ebay lets them control, where the word "Glock" appears in the listing title.  I'm not kidding.  I had the firearms models listed at the beginning of my titles.  When you have a store the entire title does not show with the listing on the store page.  So putting the model first allows the customer to browse easier.  They wanted it at the end and after the word "compatible with."  Doing that completely hid the model information from my listings on my page unless you clicked on them.  It still helped in search.  But in reality Glock made it more difficult for customers to find holsters that worked with their products with apparently zero understanding that we both benefit from my holster sales.  I make money and their customers get to carry their firearm.  But they are so dead set on controlling everything about the name Glock that they demanded to control the titles of my listings.  Even though I made zero claims about who was making the holster other than it being handmade by me.  

 

It was a fun 3 weeks dealing Glock legal.  I have some wonderfully snarky emails in response explaining just how ignorant and ridiculous I thought their position was.  

[Rahere]

I'm ex-military, at the end of contract when our world-class Special Forces bid for me. The gap they needed to fill had been created by the politicos ghosting the incumbent, I was as good as they thought, discovered what had happened, agreed with his thinking - as has the ultimate test, history - and quietly walked away. You'd think I support skilled weapons handling, not least because the only way we'll preserve peace is an ability to fight well.

However, that abstract philosophy fails to recognise two factors. Easily available firearms and a lack of compulsory continual training has demolished that theory. Your risk profile is serious in the US, wereas our disarming in the UK has virtually removed ours. Indeed, having knowingly accepted the supply of weapons to Lindsay Anderson's film If...., which may have been the meme which started the wave of school alienation massacres off, I can't entirely excuse myself, other than ignorance of the degree they were taken too. And that's why I take the other stand, not out of wokeness, but out of experience. Month by month you clock up another 9/11 massacre in head-count, yet you won't treat it with corresponding gravity. The legal provision, the Second Amendment, has been met by the existence of the National Guard. The ready availability of firearms is being used as a licence to kill by redneck police, just yesterday a case in Alabama concerned a couple of black students tortured after a copper who couldn't possibly see shouted "He's got a gun". They're suing, and have an excellent chance of winning. And it's this dark side which wins, under the precautionary principle, in my soul. Not all men are good, some are evil, some merely troubled, some morally disorientated. Letting them have access to firearms in any shape or form in any way makes you complicit. You don't require the separate storage of weapon, firing mechanism and ammunition, let alone on a different site: the home defence argument arises, which is hogwash on the proportionate use of force limitation. Someone stumbles into the wrong house because he's drunk, and is shot down as a result. Protestors on the street are threatened with lethal force because it was available. It doesn't hold water.

There may be good valid reasons to be able to defend myself. Let the Law decide on a presumption of safety. Because right now, the Islamic State's best recruiter is America.

I know this must hurt, but until you can reliably and trustworthily prove you can handle the weapons entrusted to you, you shouldn't have them available.