Matt S

Looks like a Chinese clone of the Seiko CW8. Uses 135x16 and x17 needles and 111 style presser feet. These are readily and cheaply available. Expect it to be able to use up to v207 thread in the needle and perhaps 5/16 maximum thickness. These are at the upper ends of its abilities and it's good practice to not run your machine(s) near full capacity for all sorts of reasons. It will be much better behaved with v138 thread and if you keep the work at or under 1/4" thickness. What I would call an upholstery weight machine. $999 sounds like a great price. Who sets it up, sews it off and guarantees its function?

I can recommend Abbey Saddlery in England. They have excellent customer service and ship internationally a lot. They have similar hooks, such as this, available in brass or stainless steel: http://abbeyengland.com/Store/CategoryID/370/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/73261 For prices you'll have to make an account. You'll have to pay VAT @ 20% but at least you won't get hit with import fees.

There's even more if you count the 17U series Singer never seemed to publish the extensive machine specs that we expect today. I suppose it was assumed that your factory manager knew what he was looking at or trusted that the dealer did. I see nothing in the 17-23 operator manual, its catalogue entry, photos, or discussions on this forum and elsewhere that this particular sub-class could sew anything thicker that 1/4" or use heavier thread than any other Singer 17. It's just not what it was designed for. The svelte castings and tiny bobbin of the 17 class don't leave very much room. The largest needle thread I've read people reporting is TKT20 and that really would be the upper end. Certainly I couldn't get my 17 to run it. If I may suggest, drilling is probably not helping the... refinement of your saddle stitch. A diamond awl will make a huge difference. I like the Osborne 43. If you're laying out your stitches by hand you might want to invest in a pricking iron or a couple stitching chisels. At the very least a pair of dividers with fine points would make things more even around curves and such.

The Singer 17 and 18 class machines are usually good up to size v138/TKT40 thread and about 1/4"/6mm thickness. Individual machines and sub-classes may be capable of a little more but it's not guaranteed. What in particular are you unhappy about with your saddle stitch?

Well I can't argue with that. I never considered snow/ice seizing a trigger hook -- our winters are typified by rain and boredom!

Hi Raksha, your lead looks good and and solid. If you could get those bleed knots flat (perhaps by hammering) it would make them seem even neater. One word of warning, I have found that that style of hook can come undone under some circumstances. I strongly recommend that you switch to a sliding trigger hook as opposed to that pivoting style.

All machines can leave marks on the top and/or bottom of a workpiece. It depends mainly on the leather and the foot pressure. Drop-feed-only machines, such as the CB2500, are especially prone to leaving marks underneath the work. However as the photos on Bob's website show, these are normally not bad at all and can be largely eliminated with a few seconds' rubbing or hammering. Many machine operators will hammer or rub their stitches anyway in order to lay them flatter. I have noticed similar dog-marks on vintage leather, both civilian and military, mainly because I went looking for them. A lot of stuff, holsters especially, have a "back" side that often isn't on display, where these sorts of marks don't matter so much. In my opinion it's a small cost for the benefits of a simple, tough, reliable machine. Machines that advance the work by moving the needle (often in combination with the feed-dog and/or a "walking" foot) typically leave fewer marks on the work once adjusted but can still leave marks on the front and/or back of the work. They are more complicated and expensive than the CB2500. The CB3200, for instance, is $400 more expensive than the 2500 and is a clone of the Adler 205. It has similar capacity to the 2500. Please note I have no connection to Cowboy Sewing Machines or Bob Kovar. Very similar machines are available from other reputable dealers. However I find his site very useful for reference material. I hope he and the forum mods don't mind me linking to his site!

If I'd followed this piece of wisdom when I started I would be further ahead, slightly less poor, certainly have more space in the shed, but have had a lot less fun and frustration along the way. For the price of a Tippmann Boss or Cowboy Outlaw you can buy a Cowboy 2500. It's a copy of the venerable Singer 45K, which was a real simple but reliable workhorse of industry for decades. If you can run a petrol lawnmower you can run a Singer 45, and unlike a mower the only time your toes are in danger is if you drop it on them. @CowboyBob will sell you a 2500 with easy-to-control servo motor, speed reducer, solid work table, work lamp and reverse gear for $1300+shipping. If you can live without reverse you can save $300. (Other dealers are available...) I used to have an old lever-action sole stitcher and it would take wild horses with friggin laserbeams on their heads to get me to go back. The advantages are huge: As Hannah says above, clearance in the throat is surprisingly important. The Boss has 6", the 2500 10". That may not sound a lot but it will give you a lot more options with regard to order of operations and even the sorts of things you can make. A motor lets you use both hands. Sounds obvious but it really helps you follow a marked line, as well as support the work much more evenly. This helps especially when stitching close to an edge, where a tilted workpiece might make the stitches blow out an edge. This will always happen at 11PM when you're using your last piece of leather on a commission you've underquoted for and you're already losing money on. A motor reduces the tedium of long runs. Belts, slings, rifle cases, whatever they may be, with a machine powered by an Armstrong Motor it gets bloody boring. Boredom makes me try to rush the job, and mistakes happen when I'm cutting corners. For some reason this always happened to me when hand-cranking a machine but not when hand-sewing. The combination of a servo motor and speed reducer (I prefer to think of it as a torque booster ;-) ) gives you a huge range. Tickle the pedal to place each stitch exactly where you want round a really intricate part. Mash it for the straight parts so you're not wasting time. Quietness. I've got about 6 or 7 machines (don't ask) that work on the rotary principle, which date from 1920-odd to this century. Every single one runs quieter than the CRASH-clickBANG CRASH click-BANG of my old SD28. Part of the problem was that you have to put the lever through the full range of motion every time or it jammed, so I was hitting the cast iron lever against both cast iron lever stops for each stitch. To be absolutely fair I've never used a Boss or Outlaw so I don't know if they suffer from this problem but I do know that I couldn't use my SD28 in the house when people were sleeping. Just so I'm being totally fair to the Boss/Cowboy type machines I guess they would be handy if you really don't have enough space for a motorised machine, or if the access to your leathercave was so difficult that you couldn't physically get it there. (Getting a 40x18" sewing machine table and 50+lb machine up a tight staircase is not everyone's idea of fun.) They would also be handy if you have no electric power in your workspace or if you are actually going to move it around a lot. Other than that I really don't see the appeal of them.

As far as I can see, you're not missing anything. This is exactly why I don't like to make wallets with any more that 3-4 card pockets in one "stack".The only way I know to completely eliminate the "mound" is to not have any dividers at all -- just slots in a piece of leather. This doesn't take much material, you have a wide range of leather you can use, and you can put a lot of slots into a fairly small wallet. However it doesn't stop the customer from pushing their cards too far and getting them stuck inside their wallet. (Sounds like a good way to save money to me!) If you want a way to stop the cards being pushed too far in, you're going to have to have something behind. Some manufacturers cheat and use nylon webbing or cloth for their card pockets and sew leather to the bits that your average customer isn't going to look at. It works and keeps things real thin but in my experience the nylon always wears out before the leather. And, IMO, you're then not selling a leather wallet, it's a nylon wallet with some bits of leather stuck on. Otherwise you're stuck finding a balance between leather thin enough to not be very bulky and strong enough not to tear. @nstarleather has written this all up and illustrated it better than I can do: https://nstarleather.wordpress.com/2017/05/11/north-stars-primer-on-pockets/

I'm seeking the advice of members who have experience of using strip knives/clicker dies for manufacturing small strap goods in the high dozens or low hundreds. I manufacture dog collars in a few standard sizes from two layers of waxed 2mm chrome-tan. At the moment my procedure is: Cut strips to final width using wooden strap cutter Mark all holes and lengths using a story stick and dividers Cut to length with knife and end punch Punch rivet and tongue holes using standard hole punches Skive turnback Glue Add buckle and rivet in place Machine stitch all round Add D-ring and rivet in place Punch buckle holes (The leather I use is through-dyed and the fibres quite tight so I don't edge finish in any way. Both I and my customers are happy with that.) With sales speeding up and trade enquiries coming in I'm looking at getting cutting dies made. The objectives are to reduce production time and eliminate errors caused by mismeasuring and operator error (strap cutter!). A further objective is to test the feasibility of this approach with a view to offering other products that cannot be made using a strap cutter and would be uneconomically slow to cut by hand. I've specced about a dozen dies before and been happy with all of them however I've never specced any that need very tight alignment between two different dies. My dilemma is this: can I reasonably expect the backer/lining die to cut a piece that matches perfectly with the top piece? This is in reference to outline and adjustment holes. If not I could spec the lining to be cut a little wider and longer than the top piece and trim the lining by hand once stitched together. Similarly, I could spec the die with adjustment holes only in the top piece and punch the holes through the lining manually. However both of these approaches still allow for operator error and will take some time, reducing the efficiency savings that using dies might bring. My main alternative plan is to spec some dies without cutting edges just punches in the relevant places. I will mount it into my fly press and use it to punch pre-cut strips held by an alignment jig. These dies will be long, involve several punch tubes, and I need to order them in several sizes so they represent a significant financial outlay. Any relevant advice will be greatly appreciated!

The problem with buying blind off Chinese sites is that you have no guarantee that the machine you receive is going to work, is as described, or is workable at all. What they don't tell you is that these machines don't come setup and many of the parts may need adjustment or outright replacement. You can hire the services of a sewing machine technician to do the setup for you, which is theoretically a part of what you're paying the dealer for. The chap I use is £50 for a basic service, more for a more comprehensive job, and worth the money. As you say parts availability is a lottery and if you get sent a lemon you've got an expensive doorstop and a technician's bill -- and often no right of return like you would if you'd bought from a reputable dealer. Further, you have no guarantee that the machine conforms to basic safety regulations, especially the electrical bits. Having these tested and then upgraded or replaced if they don't (and they probably won't) is going to cost £££. To you as a hobbyist or me as a one-man operation that's our risk but to a business with multiple employees (the main customers of industrial machine dealers) these things are worth a lot of money, and cost a lot of money to sort out. In defence of those dealers they have a fair few overheads. I have no problem with people getting paid a fair wage for skilled work and a return on their invested capital but 2-3 times what similar businesses sell the same product for?

Bob, did you experiment with silicone caulk as well as acrylic? Silicone can apparently be catalysed by mixing in corn starch, which provides moisture to the silicone away from the surface so allows the whole lot to set up faster. There are people using it for low-cost casting.

Chris, I've found a lot of UK dealers tend to put telephone number prices on their new Chinese machines. Perhaps it's the falling value of the pound; perhaps it's the limited competition; perhaps it's the limited market. All I know is they want more £ for a machine like a Consew 227 than it would cost me to import a 441 clone from a reputable dealer abroad, including shipping, VAT and duty. One of the few UK dealers I've found to stock 205 and 441 clones wanted £2800 and £3800 respectively... plus VAT at 20%. That's twice what it would cost me to import them from Toledo or Germany. The German Hightex dealer is advertising 441s for £1700-odd on eBay right now, which I suppose includes VAT. Used, quality machines seem to be priced according to their cosmetic appearance and are much better VFM. Some great deals available if you buy from a factory or private individual, though the risk is all on your head. What sort of machine are you looking for? (Perhaps I should better ask what work you want it to do.) Flat-beds are far more available than cylinder-beds or post-beds, and priced lower. If you can live without certain sexy features (clean paint, walking foot, reverse feature) and can be patient and flexible there are bargains to be found. My first leather-sewing machine is/was an Adler 67. Ugly condition and needle-feed only but I got for under £200 including table and clutch motor. Works great and makes a beautiful stitch. It's been superceded by a modern Chinese walking-foot upholstery-weight machine and I'm trying to talk myself into parting with it but I know I won't get the £ it's worth, so it stays under the bench.

Looks good Alisdair. I agree with you and Webicons -- they're good, solid workman's tools. The more popular lines are still produced by George's grandson, who trades under the name Woodware Repetitions. Available through Abbey England, among other sources.

Post-and-burr rivets are very rarely seen on factory-made goods -- they're slow (expensive) to set. The proportions don't look quite right. I wonder if those are something similar to a "hat" rivet that you might find on a pair of jeans? They're essentially a single-cap speed rivet and often can self-pierce lighter leathers, which eliminates a manufacturing step. For handmade items I would strongly suggest the use of proper post-and-burr/saddlers rivets in copper, brass or aluminium.

One of the several issues with the wooden strap cutters (of various qualities and provenances) is that the blade is offset the width of the strap from the line of the handle. The wider the strap being cut the greater the turning force this applies to the blade, which can twist and snap -- especially on heavier and harder leathers. Two alternatives, short of strap cutting machines, are the draw gauge and the plough (plow) gauge. The draw gauge, such as the Osborne, is of metal construction and can take a much thicker blade than the wooden strap cutter. I've never used one of these but the stronger blade should help when cutting wide and/or heavy straps. Plough gauges, such as those made by Dixon, Blanchard or Barnseley, work with a push rather than a pull. The blade is inline with the handle so there is no turning effect at any width or weight of strap. All that is needed to cut even a 4" wide strip of heavy bridle or harness leather is a stropped blade, a good grip with the left hand on the strap, and a bit of grunt. They are, however, not cheap.

I realise this is getting towards the edge of what these lever-action machines are designed for, but a great accessory would be some sort of power adapter. I'm thinking a double acting pneumatic ram attached to a valve in the pedal. Toe down needle down. Heel down needle up. Much easier control for someone who isn't used to controlling sewing machines and keeps things relatively simple. Another advantage over electric power would be that you could run it off a portable air tank, truck/tractor compressor or even a petrol compressor of "off grid".

I have a treadle 45k58 I could be persuaded to part with. Long way to pick it up though!

Ah, I missed the little red line. Yes I've tried it, before I got the proper punch and had to use a normal round punch and cut the slit with a knife. I got it the wrong way round a few times, and it certainly is the wrong way round. If you put the tension on the slit you're relying on the stiffness of the leather to keep the tension in the strap. As soon as the leather starts to squash the stud will start to move into the slit, which loses tension on the strap and as the stud moves up into the strap that's when the slit will start to tear. It gets very easy for the strap to pop off the stud too. By putting it the traditional way round, with the tension bearing on the hole, the pressure is spread over a wider area of leather that doesn't move away from the stud as it would at the slit.

In English work that is the traditional way to do it. Pictured is an old pippin punch by James Dixon. I don't know if these are/were sold in different sizes but this one measures 1/8" diameter but with a 5/8" tail, which really helps the flexibility -- even in stiff 4mm/10oz bridle leather. Perhaps this is the source of the difficulty with even very good leather cracking -- too short a slit?

You know what, I might be persuaded to swap it for a 441-type machine. I've only found one dealer over here that sells Chinese 441s and they want £4k+ 20% tax for a 4500. That's about what a genuine used Juki goes for. It'd actually be cheaper to have one shipped from Toledo and pay import tax as well as the 20% sales tax. On the flip side dealers ask about £2000-2500 for No.6 machines on treadle stands, and they can be got for a lot less if you're willing to risk the guys on ePray flogging "Uncle Grandad's old machine". I've noticed two fail to sell for £1500 in the last couple months. Part of it is that safety inspectors mostly don't have experience operating anything more than a clipboard and have the legal power to shut down a workplace at the drop of a hard hat. Most businesses just can't afford the hassle. One-man-bands don't have to comply with safety regs but as soon as you employ the neighbour kid to click you out a few bits on Saturday mornings the whole operation is technically liable, even if it's you who does the stupid thing and tries to find out what a 30lb balance wheel tastes like at 150RPM.

Well one is a craptacular Chinese patcher which cost less than a servo motor. The other "unique capability" machine is a feed-up-the-arm zig-zag so don't feel bad, very few of these are around (probably cos nobody wants one). I'm sure your 4500 takes up less space than a single one of my 7. Now you're starting to sound like my girlfriend! Okay so I have two flat-bed upholstery-weight machines with almost identical capabilities so I guess I could get rid of one. And maybe I don't need a flat-bed Singer 45 when my BUSM No6 does everything it can and more... This is dangerous. You'll be telling me I don't need so many guns or knives or tents soon.

Hey, I resemble that remark! Mind you, I'm only up to 7, two do things that a 4500 can't, and most of them work just fine...

That's not a bad idea, but this machine has a single bobbin for both throws of the needle. The hook timing must have been very carefully balanced to work at both extremes. It's a little unusual because unlike most machines it doesn't require a scarf on the needle.

Thanks. Other than a few small chips the paint looks just as it did 67 years ago. Even the italic gold "oil" decals are intact. I always thought the japanned Singers were the most beautiful, but this crinkle finish is nudging for top spot, and it doesn't show any fingerprints. Transverse feed machines suitable for leather are pretty rare but this is the first zigzag I'm aware of. I was keen to get this one because it lets me sew some designs I had that I could otherwise only do with a patcher. That and the bragging rights... The heavier thread is getting stuck around the shuttle about equally on the left and right throw. Not every time, which makes me think I can do something about it when I can put a little more time into this machine. It also skips stitches fairly often at the right throw when using heavier thread which as you mention is probably a timing thing. Had to dismount the needle bar since it got bent in transit so I had the fun of resetting the NB height timing -- a surprising amount hassle since it can only be adjusted once I've removed the end cover and the rocker assembly in which the NB slides -- and then has to be reassembled to be tested!