Matt S

They a fantastic pieces of kit to use, though I understand the maintenance is a bit in-depth. I find them from time to time on online auction sites. A 12" capacity Sagitta finished at £250 yesterday, only 2 hours' drive from me, which is a stupid low price even though it needed some repairs. However I had to admit to myself that I don't have the workshop space, the forklift access to move the 350KG lump, or an adequate electric supply to run the thing. One day...

One online reference that I've found to be very reliable states that the Juki 1508 requires type U bobbins, if you are having trouble sourcing proper Juki bobbins.

I have a half-dozen industrial machines for various leather purposes but the one I use the most is a Wimsew 0618. It's nothing special -- a locally badged Chinese upholstery-weight triple-feed flat-bed machine. It's on a cheap table top, vintage Singer K-legs and powered by a rather crappy servo motor with needle positioner. An unremarkable modern machine that can do TKT20 (v138) thread all day, and TKT13 (v207) sometimes. It won't do 8mm of bridle reliably but it will run like the clappers through a quarter inch of softer leather.

40s thread is about 0.29mm and round in cross-section. Chris if you really like the fine thread like 40s have you tried unbonded nylon? It should unlay and flatten slightly, maybe filling the holes a little more. You may be able to remove the bonding from a length of your thread by passing it through a solvent (I have seen meths suggested but never tried it). Those chisels are designed for much larger thread, and though I have a few I don't like them as much as I do iron & awl -- the holes they leave are too big, whereas the holes from an awl close up quickly. You might be able to use a slightly larger thread, say 30s or 20s. These are still finer than the vast majority of threads people use for hand stitching but might fill the holes a little better. Would it be feasible to modify your tools to make smaller holes? When Dixon was basically the only option for quality pricking irons in the UK a lot of users used to slim them down with a grinder or a file. (Dixon irons were notorious for their especially wide teeth. My 5, 6 and 7 SPI Dixons need 5+ cord linen to fill the holes fully.) Awls of course are fairly simple to grind down but tedious and fiddly. I've found loads of tiny awls made either by grinding or by setting almost all of the blade into the handle, only the very tip sticking proud.

Hi Uwe, thanks for the correction!

Tandy sells the Boss for $1300-1500 depending on which level of membership you have (dunno about other vendors). GA5/CB2500 (Singer 45K/Adler 5 clone) is $1000-1300 depending on if you want reverse or not. CB3200 (Adler 205 clone) is about $1700. Both these motorised machines will do a little under half an inch of leather with heavy threads, for about the same price as a Boss.

I forgot, there is the Windham Cub available new. Built by the same buy designed the Luberto #9 and Classic (both modernisations of the BUSM/Pearson #6) it's an odd little animal. Very simplistic. Uses a lot of standard modern parts. Designed to be relatively lightweight and portable, it has a hand crank instead of a balance wheel (which, if you watch videos of it in use, shows why balance wheels are a very good idea). $1800 last time I enquired.

Diluted water based glue speeds up the burnishing process an awful lot, and provides a more sealed edge than plain water. Most glues work. Gum tragacanth is commonly recommended but I've never got along with it very well. Gum Arabic, hide/pearl/rabbit glue, wallpaper adhesive, even PVA work better. I've also had success burnishing with clear acrylic after an initial plain water burnish. Shellac (the stuff used for French polishing) works well for stuff that didn't flex, like boot heels. A very accomplished saddler (who posts as UKSaddlery on YouTube) also suggests water based wood varnish as a quick cheat. I haven't tried that yet. Motorised burnishes are great -- one of the best investments I've ever made. However you can go pretty quick hand burnishing with any of the above solutions.

OK, so we have most of the basics covered. Get some thread of a known size, and appropriate size needles, and see what happens. You may have a timing issue but I wonder it's related to your particular combination of thread, needle and material.

That's cool, patcher machines like the 29k have a universal feed, which means you can make the stitches go whichever direction you like. This is ideal for something bulky like a canvas tent -- you just stick the bit that needs sewing under the foot. Let's say it's a square patch. You sew down one edge, turn the foot at the corner, repeat for the other three sides and overlap the start by a few stitches. Job jobbed, without the trouble of having to turn a big lump of canvas round four times and fit it through he machine. You need class 29x3 needles for cloth. You can get them from eBay or a more specialist webshop. Largest thread you can probably use is TKT40 (what the Americans would call V69). Nylon is the most common and pretty cheap -- you can get it on eBay, Amazon, specialist webshops or your local sewing shop will probably have it. I pay £3.50 for 500m. Polyester is about double the price of nylon but is far more UV stable, which may be important if you're using your tents a lot. For TKT40 you'll need size NM110 needles. They cost about £1 each and come in packs of 5. You'll also need a threading wire (£2) and some bobbins. I can't find a link to a manual for your exact machine but here is one for a different subclass. http://www.bootmaker.com/29-4.pdf It's pretty much the same and will give you the general idea. Here is a GIF that shows the basic principle how a lock-stitch machine like yours works and why bobbins are needed: The green circle is the bobbin. Sewing machines can't pass the needle thread all the way through the material like sewing by hand. Lock-stitch machines instead pull a loop of needle thread around the bobbin and pull it taught. Have you thought about contacting sewing machine repair places near you Fin? They may be happy to help a scout group, or even make you an offer for your machine.

Hi Mike, there could be a few things going on here. The symptom is that the hook is failing to catch the needle thread loop (after the first two stitches) in leather. Now we must find the cause. First thing, and please forgive me if I'm stating the obvious, is that we must check the size, type and class of needle you are using. Jersey fabrics are sewn with a ball-tipped needle I think. Leather should wherever possible be sewn with a sharp needle designed for the task. Among the various advantages this can reduce the chance of needle deflection, which itself is a leading cause of skipped stitches (and needle crashes). At the same time make sure that the needle size is correct for the size thread you are using, as this can also cause all sorts of problems. Also make sure that the needle is as fully deep into the needle bar as possible and rotated correctly (usually so that the long groove is to your left and the scarf to your right). It's probably also worth checking that the class of needle is correct for your machine -- these things are not universal (I have to keep on top of about 5 different needle classes!). Your machine appears to need class 135x16/17 (16 for leather, 17 for fabrics). These are a popular class for industrial machines and readily available. When you start a seam, are you holding the threads slightly taught for the first few stitches? This is the correct thing to do however if you're not this hints that the needle tension is too high. Dial it down a couple turns, try a seam, then repeat until it starts to work. If you run out of adjustment you can increase bobbin tension a tad. Zigzag machines have the added complication in that the clearance between the hook and the needle (which is crucial for to catch the loop) varies for each throw of the needle. I don't have much experience here, only with one ZZ machine which has a pinned shuttle driver so I can only adjust the needle bar timing.

How about my 1920s BUSM #6? It'll do 3/4" of hard veg tanned leather and is hand cranked. Only weighs 150lb without the stand ;-) :-D If by "hand cranked" you mean an older domestic sewing machine (sometime miss-sold as "semi-industrial" or "industrial strength") the short answer is "none". All machines are different but the most I would reasonably expect from such a machine would be 10oz/4mm total of soft leather with a skinny tkt40/v69 thread -- and that would be well above its rated capacity.

@chrisash The problem with the internet is that anyone can present themselves as an expert. I've seen excellent advice, terrible advice, some dangerous, some illegal, on various topics. Youtube is full of people who either have confidence that outstrips their competence or are trying to make a few quick £ through ad revenue and Amazon affiliate links. Wiz has established his credentials as someone who actually knows what he's talking about, has been there and bought the T-shirt, and dispenses his advice for free. I've found the value of his advice to far outweigh what it costs me. If a £10 attachment for a 50 year old domestic sewing machine is going to make their machine do the work of a machine that will cost £2000 new then industry would be buying all the Singer 201s they could get their hands on. And if you believe that I have some property in King's Lynn to sell you with beautiful views of Ben Nevis ;-) :-D I understand about being on a limited budget. You're trying to wring the most utility for the smallest possible outlay. "Using up" a 201 until you have decided either that leatherwork isn't for you or you can make the commitment to a more capable machine is a good strategy, especially if you are doing it as a hobby. It's also a fun thing to do in its own right if you like to tinker -- I did something similar with a Singer 99 before I lucked into my first "real" leather machine. Just remember that there are hard limits with what that machine can do, and you're pretty much at them already. On the topic of grease I doubt that there's anything special about Singer brand grease apart from the fact that Singer made a profit margin on it. I use lithium bearing grease from the motor factors on bevel gears. £3.50 for a tub. If it's good enough for a £20,000 ton of metal doing 70MPH down the motorway with 5 squishy humans inside I figure it's good enough for a £300 50lb sewing machine doing 1,000 RPM ;-) It's not like you have to worry about voiding the Singer guarantee!

Hi Fin, I'm about 500 miles south of you so can't pop over im afraid. However perhaps I can offer some remote assistance? The 29k is, as you may be aware, a patcher machine intended for sewing patches (repair or decorative) onto items made of cloth or leather. What would you be intending to use it for? 29Ks aren't terribly complicated machines. Is there something particularly wrong with yours or is it general help you're after? Singer 29Ks are quite desirable so depending on it's condition you may find that selling it could bring your scout group some useful money. Matt

I'm not aware of any options for changing the direction of the feed on the 19-10, and TBH I think it would be a lot more effort that it'd be worth -- there's a lot of 9" feed-across-the-arm machines out there, compared with a long-arm machine like yours. Not sure about part #1, are you sure it's original? Is it stamped SIMANCO anywhere? Looks like your machine doesn't have a thread check spring, is that right? If so that's very unusual.

Thanks, that's a much more reasonable price.

That's one fine looking machine. I have a 19-10, which appears to be your machine's little brother.

Ritza is a flat, braided thread whereas most threads are round and twisted so there's no direct comparison. The great thing about the flat threads is that they look a lot chunkier than they actually are. The other complication is if you just put a mic on a sewing thread it can squash down, especially if not bonded, so it's not too easy to get an exact measurement. There is a very handy comparison chart I refer to a lot here: http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html It has diameters in decimal inches and in millimetres as well as equivalent sizes of linen thread.

I'm not familiar with that sort of thread, the only monofilament I've come across was basic fishing line. TKT 40 nylon is usually a 3-strand twist, and may or may not be bonded. The thread used for top stitching jeans, for comparison, is usually one size larger (TKT 30) and a softer unbonded polycotton which makes it look chunky. TKT40 nylon has a breaking strain about 11lb for what it's worth. I also like the look of heavier thread and only use 40 where the leather is too thin to reliably lock tkt20 stitches inside the seam, or if I'm using a specialist machine that can't handle heavier thread, or if I need to match the appearance of another seam. Shirts, I think, are sewn with far lighter and softer thread -- 60s 80s or 120s, often cotton or polycotton -- mostly to prevent puckering and have their strain spread across several parallel stitch lines whereas in leather we often use just one. You can snap this thread easily by hand but even "just" 40 nylon cuts into my skin before it snaps. Tiger thread, being a flat braid, is difficult to compare with twisted thread. I've never seen strength ratings for it however I think that even the smallest size is far stronger than tkt40 nylon.

Le Prevo sells 500m cops of the stuff in a wide range of colours. £3 each, plus carriage and VAT. I use them, I threw a bunch into an order. I don't use TKT40 very much but for not many beer tokens I find it a handy way to keep some extra colours I might not normally hanve on hand for those odd jobs that come up that aren't worth buying a 3000m cone or I don't have time to wait for it to arrive. Mostly repairs. You can get continuous filament polyester in that size. This is more UV-stable than nylon but otherwise pretty similar -- except the price is at least twice as much and it's not as widely available. Core-spun polyester might work, as will poly-cotton threads (such as jeans thread) but it's not as strong. BTW you might find more results searching for TKT40 or 40s thread -- this is the metric size equivalent to V69 and pretty much universally used in the UK.

If you have a low ceiling over the machine or a wall behind the machine, put a small screw eye about halfway between the spool and the thread pin on the machine. This will basically do the job of the arm on top of an industrial thread stand. If there is no convenient place to put the eye, you can put it on a scrap of wood which you screw or clamp to the bench. Or, if you want to use a bobbin of thread on top of the machine, put a disc of felt or rubber on the pin before the bobbin to reduce overspin.

I make do with a no-name Chinese 6 ton hydraulic press for similar size dies. Cost me all of £60, plus the steel plates and a kitchen cutting board.

I agree with everything posted above. A 15 class domestic isn't going to work the best, but it'll work as a better sewing machine than no sewing machine at all. So long as you keep the thickness under 2mm or so, and the temper of the leather pretty soft, you should be able to do wallet inners if you baby the work a little. (Or at least I used to with my Singer 66.) It will also be useful for sewing fabric bag linings and all sorts of useful stuff. This will give you extra time to find a more suitable machine within budget.

No worries Jeff. I don't have any particular brands to recommend. As @chrisash alludes most machines these days are manufactured by a limited number of Chinese factories. Premium brands like Durkopp-Adler still manufacture some of their machines in the West but most don't. Any dealer can import a shipping container of machines and have their name put on them. What makes the difference is how the machines are specced, inspected on arrival, setup and supported. Plus it helps if they sell "honestly" -- if they listen and understand your needs rather than doing the Honest John Car Dealership act. The machine I recommended in the previous thread was a Chinese clone of the venerable Singer 45K. These were used by industry for decades for all sorts of leathergoods -- wallets, briefcases, riding tack... They are simple, inexpensive (as heavy industrial sewing machines go) and nearly bomb-proof. However they only feed is via the feed-dog (the serrated bit of metal underneath the work. This can cause two problems. The first is that layers can slip out of alignment unless glued or tacked together. As a holster-maker I assume that you glue your layers together before sewing so this shouldn't be a problem. The second is that this feed-dog has to be quite sharp in order to grip the work. This can leave marks underneath the leather (see here) depending on lots of factors but mainly on the leather hardness and how tight you set the foot tension. These marks will be on the back of your holsters so you may not care, or if you do you can rub with a bone folder or tap with a hammer to reduce them (as here). @CowboyBob sells this machine, properly setup for leather, on a table with a good servo motor and speed reducer, for $995. If you need or want a reverse (backtacking) feature it'll cost you another $300. You can read the specs on his page here. He has a good reputation, contributes a lot of valuable information FoC on these boards, and has supplied many members here. Similar machines are sold by many dealers around the world, so please don't think that I'm giving him any undue prominence. Compound-feed machines, which feed the work using a combination of a "walking" foot and a needle that moves backwards as well as the feed-dog, tend to leave fewer marks on the work than a drop-feed-only machine but this depends on the leather and machine settings. (They also tend to suffer from less layer slippage but that's not an issue if you glue your layers together.) They are, however, far more complex and expensive than a drop-feed-only machine. Popular machines of this type for work in heavy leather are Chinese clones of the Adler 205 and Juki 441. Such machines, setup for leather, on a table with a good servo motor and speed reducer, start at around $2000. Best thing would probably be to find an industrial machine dealer you can visit with samples of the work you want to sew. If they won't demo the machine they recommend for your purposes -- or better yet show you how and let you do it -- don't give them your business. Failing that contact some of the dealers we have advertising on here. Testimonials are all over this forum, and they all tend to post on here. You're lucky in a lot of ways -- the US seems to have the widest range of dealers and excellent machines at bloody good prices accessible to the "little guy".

Goldstar Tools appears to be a drop-shipper, so the machine's state when it lands on your doorstep will be a roll of the dice. It could be perfect, it could be a boat anchor. It will probably need a setup at the least. Either way you will have no recourse to the supplier if something goes wrong. I'm not convinced that this type of machine is suitable for your needs anyway. TKT20/V138 thread is lighter than most holster makers like to use. Further, you mentioned the thickness you wanted to sew (in a previous thread) and it will be right at the maximum that this machine can do. Problems can occur when you sew at your machine's maximum. We also don't know what the servo motor is like. Many of the cheaper ones have annoying design features -- I have one that will only start at 500RPM and another that has no ramp -- it will only do the speed you set it at, no variation at all. BTW I just noticed that it's an automatic oiler, which usually need you to run your machine at high speed in order the oil reaches all the required bearings and wear points. When sewing leather items, especially the small quantities that most of us on this forum sew, you will be sewing at a relatively slow speed, so the oil pump won't function. Ideally you will want manual lubrication where you put a drop of oil on each of about a dozen oil points dotted around the machine. This may sound tedious but it's only required once each day the machine is used and takes under a minute. I know that it's not everyone's cup of tea but I previously mentioned another type of machine, available from a reputable US-based dealer, that will be able to do the sort of work you want all day every day. It comes with a good quality servo motor, a speed-reducer pulley and a guarantee all for the same price that you would gamble on this less suitable machine. The trade-off that you get is that it's more likely to leave dog-marks on the back than a more complicated compound-feed machine like the 205 or 441 types. Ye pays yer money and takes yer choice.