K-Man

Particle: Yes, it is a full-time job for me. But at the time I purchased the clicker, my sales/work load was much less. However, I recognized, more accurately - envisioned, the growth. At the time I got the clicker, I was only doing 1/10th of what I'm doing now. The size of my operation for employees is two - myself and my wife. You have to decide what you want to do and where you want to go/what level you want to take the holster-making to. All I can do is tell you what the benefits are, or not, with using the different clickers and other machinery that I have experience with. The equipment choices make a huge difference in the quality of the product. The purchase of a clicker is one of the larger $$ purchases you'll encounter as you go along. If you're considering one, consider the long term commitment it will also take to make it pay off. I derive great benefit from mine because I also use it to cut out other patterns - not just holsters. I've got a wide assortment of other dies - from knife sheaths to dog collars to saddle bags to purses to rifle slings to quivers to coasters to dog muzzles to spur straps. Holsters and related accessories are only one segment of what I make/offer. Shop around for the clickers - look on eBay, Craig's List, whatever other equipment sale places that are local to you. I recently saw a 15-ton Tippmann clicker on eBay for $1800. Regular price for that is ~$3000. The company I'm partnering with in the manufacturing of our holsters just bought a 20-ton, swing arm, clicker for $400 off of Craig's List. With respect to the dies, you'd be wise to not order a die for a design right at the get-go. There's generally a period of time where you're tweaking the design to some extent. Once you've got it worked out, then order the die. As you gain experience, you'll probably find that there will be less and less tweaking needed. Since you're starting out, again, give serious consideration to having someone "click" out the patterns for you. That would save you even more time. The cost to do that is generally going to be minimal. It would take you a fair amount of time I suspect to spend the comparable amount of ~$2000 that you would spend on a decent clicker. In the meantime, you can see if the amount of growth (that you're hopefully experiencing) justifies spending that $2000 - $3000 for your own clicker. I don't discount the concerns/issues you have in deciding when to cross the line into a higher level of operation. I know insurance, for example, is a huge expense. I'm retired from the USN, so I'm fortunate from the perspective of insurance costs. BTW, in the time I save by using a clicker, and other machinery, I spend it now making custom acoustic guitars and custom gun grips.

I've followed your thread about your interest in a clicker. A clicker does a number of things. First, and foremost, it cuts out a consistent pattern every time. Second, it does save you a huge amount of time. Clicking out a pattern takes about 10-20 seconds versus 10-20 minutes drawing/tracing a pattern and cutting it out by hand. You can use one holster/clicker pattern for a number of guns - to a certain extent. If you have a pattern that works/fits for an XD with respect to sizing, it should work for a number of similiar-sized guns. The only thing you're really going to change then is the location/line of stitching for the particular gun frame. For example, I use the same holster clicker cutout for a 3", 3.5", 4.0", and 4.25" 1911. I just trim off the excess on the bottom - that normally takes less than a minute. And I use that same clicker pattern for similar-sized guns. With respect to the Tippmann clicker that you referred to, I assume you're talking about the 7-ton version. I have the 15-ton version. I also had the 7-ton version for about a year. The 7-ton version struggled with cutting through 7/8 oz leather. I had to end up just sticking the edge of the clicker die under the press and cutting a small section of the die at a time. I ended up getting rid of it. With the 15-ton, it's done in one press/swoop. I've even cut saddle skirting on it without a problem. I've had the 15-ton for 6 years now and have never had a problem with it. The only real issue with it is it's so dang heavy. We use an engine lift and a chain to move it around when we need to. I've only moved it twice in the last 3 years. In any event, I believe you would be dissatisfied with the 7-ton version in fairly short order. With respect to the clicker dies, you generally pay by the linear inch. I have had all of my clicker dies made by Tippmann over the last 6 years - nearly 200 dies. I'm yet to have to sharpen one. A few of those dies have cut out over 2000 holsters each. An average cost for an IWB or OWB sized die is $60-$65. The largest impact on the cost of a die is really how many bends and how sharp of a bend there is in the pattern. Tippmann has one of the quickest turnaround times as well. If I need a hand-held die cut out, then I go to Texas Die. But for regular clicker dies, I use Tippmann. Also, out of those ~200 dies, I've only had to send one back. It was for a belt end. The adjustment hole alignment was off on one of the holes. I sent it back and had a new one in approximately a week. Another time saver built in with the use of clicker dies becomes apparent when it's time to finish your edges. Because of the consistency of the pattern gained by the use of the die(s), that means your edges are going to line up where they need to. You're not having to make minor adjustment cuts or have excess leather hanging over the edge or have ragged cuts. You're not having to spend the extra time smoothing those cuts to get them into shape and ultimately to the point of finish. Also, how many times have you slipped with the knife cut when cutting out your patterns? You end up in some instances having to start over with the cutting out of a new pattern. Let me give you an example of how much time can be saved with the use of a clicker die. We had an order for 60 holsters - same pattern. It took us right at an hour and a half to click/cut those patterns out. There were two pieces - the main body of the holster and a layover/reinforcement piece - so 120 pieces total. I'd like to see you, or any of these holster makers on this forum, try to match quantity/time/consistency by cutting that many pieces out by hand with a knife. It would take nearly all day to do nothing but that. The time saved by using clicker dies can then be turned into whatever you want. It could be making additional holsters, designing new holsters, or doing something totally different or aside from making holsters. If you don't want to invest in a clicker machine, then you should at least consider in having the dies made and having someone who has a machine cut them out for you. I've often done that. A person will have the die made, send it to me, and also have the leather they want used sent to us, and we cut out the pattern. We then mail to them however many they wanted. In most instances, it's a very modest cost of service to do that. You can take my comments here as a bunch of bunk, but I base them on my experience of having cut out patterns by hand (which I still do on occasion for custom work) and cutting out patterns using the clicker die(s).

Your last statement is a bit over the top, don't you think? We just happen to have developed the design that has been proven to work. I'm certain that if our designs were off-base, then we would not have had the success that we have had with that particular holster or any of our others. http://www.kdholsters.com/ Lobo - I'm glad you find my comments give you a chuckle.

Why do you say that? What are you basing that opinion on?

That style/design is the most popular holster we sell to our customers - a few thousand over the last 2.5 years to be exact. Have not had one dissatisfied customer in it's ability to function as designed/advertised. The skill to design such a holster is easier for some than others I guess.

To a certain extent, you all are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. There are legal ramifications in a couple of states, but if you do your research, you'll know what that entails. In nearly every instance, merely taking possession of a gun in the course of business, i.e., to make a holster, does not transfer ownership. Ownership is transfered to the holstermaker when the gun is shipped from another state to an FFL where the holstermaker resides. Ownership is then transferred back to the original owner when you ship the gun and holster back to an FFL in the owner's state. If you're doing a face to face transfer, a receipt for the gun(s) is recommended. You don't need a 12-page legal document (unless your particular state/county/city requires it). I've taken possession of guns in excess in value of $10,000 in order to make holsters. If you're a business, you should have insurance coverage for loss/damage of such property. If you're a sole proprietor, working out of your home, odds are your homeowner's insurance won't cover it. You might consider a "rider" on your homeowner's policy that covers the loss or damage to firearms. Common sense is the key here. Possession of the gun in order to make the holster should really only be for a very short period of time anyways. Take due care of the gun while it's in your possession and you'll find it's not as big of a deal as some are trying to make it out to be.

I'd use their wallets, clutch purses, biz card holders, and day planners.

Suggest you research the Mastercard/VISA, etc., rules of play. It doesn't matter if they used Paypal or not as the vehicle. If they used a credit card, issued by a financial institution other than Paypal, then they can dispute the charge. Some folks/businesses I guess choose to run the risk of someone disputing it. Perhaps once they've had a customer claim a loss or disputed a large $$ order, then their perspective may change. Not a wise risk IMO. As a vendor's customer base grows, the risk becomes greater. Of course, if you have a small amount of sales, that risk will remain at a lower level. YMMV.

Rick: They are the bright silver. Kevin

Came into possession of a bunch of hardware. Bought from a guy who made dog muzzles and dog leads primarily. Listed below is what's available and corresponding prices. 1/2" Conway Buckles, nickel plated, 500 count per bag, $25 per 500/bag - 3 bags avail 1/2" Conway Buckles, nickel plated, 297 count per bag, $15 5/8" Conway Buckles, nickel plated, 200 count, $15 5/8" Conway Buckles, nickel plated, 183 count, $15 1/2" Bridle Buckle, nickel plated, 500 count per bag, $10 per 500/bag - 2 bags avail 5/8" Bridle Buckle, nickel plated, 500 count per bag, $15 per 500/bag - 3 bags avail Medium (5/16") Double Cap Rivets, 1000 count per bag, $10 per 1000/bag - 4 bags avail Bull Snap, Nickel Plated, 5/8" strap, 100 count per bag, $60 per bag - 5 bags avail Bull Snap, Nickel Plated, 5/8" strap, 75 count, $45 - 1 bag avail Bull Snap, Nickel Plated, 1/2" strap, 100 count per bag, $55 per bag - 10 bags avail 1/2" #9 Copper rivets & burrs, 1/2 lb, $9 per box - 3 boxes avail 3/4" #9 Copper rivets & burrs, 1/2 lb, $9 per box - 1 box avail Forms of payment accepted: Cash, credit card (Mastercard/VISA), money order. Shipping will be determined based on items bought. The least expensive way will most likely be USPS Priority Mail Flat Rate. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. You can reach me through pm here, email, or by phone. Our number is 813-659-3456, and we're available Monday-Saturday, 9:00 - 6:00 (eastern time).

Forgot to add forms of payment accepted. They are credit card (Mastercard/VISA), money order, Paypal, cash.

I have the following dummy guns for sale: CZ-75B H&K P2000 Ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8” barrel (Duncan) Springfield XD-9 Springfield TRP Operator SIG P228 (Black) SIG Mosquito S&W 340 PD (Duncan) S&W M&P 40 S&W 6906 (sq trigger guard) Steyr M9A1 Taurus 24/7 Taser X26 Walther P22 (Duncan) All are Ring's Blue Guns (including the black one), unless otherwise noted. Price is $25/each + shipping. Will combine/flat rate ship on multiple guns. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. Quickest way to get what you want is to call me. Our number is 813-659-3456, and we're available 9:00 - 6:00 (eastern time). Thanks for your interest.

The contact/order info I have is: 2015 E. 5th St., Ste 19 Tempe, AZ 85281 480-319-2314 www.chaylor.com

Machine is sold, pending receipt of funds. Thanks for everyone's interest.

Have an Artisan 618-1SC available. It's approximately 3 years old. Comes with the table, brand new servo motor, and machine head. Was recently tuned up by Leather Machine Co. Will sew up to 3/8" thick of leather. I used it primarily to sew belts and pocket holsters. Ran 138 or 207 thread on the top, with 138 thread in the bobbin. Needs the hand wheel replaced, as it has a small crack in it. Have the replacement on order and am awaiting delivery (expected in approximately 2 weeks). Machine functions fine in every respect. Does not have the speed reducer. Will throw in a couple of bobbins and some needles and a 1 lb spool of 138 nylon bonded thread. Price is $600 + shipping. New owner will have to arrange for shipping, as I do not have the opportunity to do that. Will, of course, make the machine, table, and motor available for packing by the shipping company. I have the styrofoam shipping container for the machine head, as well as the shipping container for the servo motor. Is available for local pick up (central FL) if desired. Can accept credit card (Mastercard/VISA), money order, or cash as form of payment. Can most easily reach me by phone (813-659-3456) or by pm or email. Thanks for your interest.

Ed does some awesome work in the making of the mauls. I've been very pleased with the set he made for me. I'm certain you'll be equally pleased. What kind of wood are the handles made from?

A multi-position holster that can be worn either IWB or OWB has been made by a number of holster makers already. The only real conflict I see in his request is the wanting of both a side shield and a thumb break. You either get one or the other, as they're placed in the same location on the holster. And if you want the thumb break, the side shield is normally part of that with the design. I've seen IWB holsters with thumb breaks on them. A large number of law enforcement agencies require their officers carry their off-duty weapons in a holster with a thumb break, so it's a common request/feature, and if properly designed, will function flawlessly.

I would have to say that I'm pretty picky about my stitch quality, both with respect to durability and appearance. I've only used the Neel Saddlery and Artisan machines in my business. We've had what some would view as some great successes, and in some of those instances have done better than those making the same products with the needle and awl machines. I have personally seen some products made with the needle and awl machines, and they do a magnificent job no doubt. My perspective and belief is that the skill lies more with the craftsman utilizing the equipment than with the machine itself.

Regis: It really depends on the overall design of the holster itself and the gun being carried. A closed-bottom holster lends itself to allowing the gun and holster to flop around in the pocket. The majority of the closed-bottom holsters that I've seen by some makers really exacerbate this. An open-bottom holster lends itself to being more stabilized in the pocket. It's much easier also to keep the lint/dirt out of the pocket than out of a closed-bottom holster.

I burnish at 3600 rpms all day long, and have been for a number of years. Have not had any problems/issues. But to each their own. All that matters in the end is that it works/produces the results you are looking to get. I took a Ryobi grinder and adapted it with a stainless steel version of the Weaver #9 tool on one side and a stainless steel version of their other wood burnisher on the other. I made one small modification on it, and it runs like a champ all day long. You could probably do the same thing with wood versions of the burnishing tools themselves if you want to use that instead.

Monica: IMO, it won't work. Aside from the differences in size spec, you also have a difference in frame shape. Now some amateur holster makers may not consider the differences to be of any consequence. But for those of us who are striving to be considered a professional leathercrafter/holster maker, it makes a difference. I've got a Glock 36 blue gun you're welcome to borrow. Give me a shout if I can help.

Hobby Tom: Your pm did not come through. I sent you a pm and email.

HobbyTom: Something you might want to consider in the purchase of the machine is after-sale service. I've had the opportunity to work/deal with all three mentioned in this thread. My experience has been far less than stellar with respect to Artisan. There's been two instances in particular that have caused me to choose not to deal with them again, even though the three machines of their's that I have are now covered by their extended warranty. One instance happened approximately 3 years ago; the second (and final) instance happened last month. On the flip side, I've known Ryan for approximately 7 years now and have bought numerous machines from him. I've known Steve for approximately 4 years. Both of these folks have always helped with any issues/questions about machines, whether it was one of theirs or someone else's brand. IMO, it's the customer service that enhances the deal. If I were allowed to make a recommendation I would get the same machine as the 3000 from either Ryan or Steve. Best of luck to you in your search.

Do you have a picture of that Officer's Model with the C.T. laser (or cut out for it)? My contacts at both Crimson Trace and Ring's Blue Guns state that they've never had it available. So I'm kind of curious as to what you have....

Duncan Custom Guns has that very model available on their latest list. Suggest you call them - 989-894-6691.