bruce johnson

Tex, Seems like Jeremiah's size numbers for the edgers run about 1-2 size numbers up from some of the other makers. If Jeremiah's #5 Bisonette is too small for the skirts, then it looks like you got an option. Some of those Bisonettes from Osborne are pretty wide. Carefully enlarging the hole should work, and leave enough blade to keep some strength. I saw a Bisonette a guy modified (unintentionally) and ended up doing horn covers with it. I've been kicking around adding one to my next order to try it.

Andrew, That is what I like to hear - a happy customer!!! Now you know why I traded to or ordered servo motors for my machines. I don't make holsters, but I use the holster plate for gussets on things like ropebags and saddle bags. The raised center gives me someplace for the gusset to lay down into. Otherwise I have been known to sew across a wrinkle on a corner and say bad words. I use the stirrup plate for sewing some stirrups, but mostly for sewing gussets into purses, brief cases, and shaving kits. The rounded top shortens up that turn radius and makes those corners go much easier. The narrower ridge to the left of the needle slot lets you get close to the wood on stirrups. It also doesn't push over the gusset on the bag corners.

LBum, Those are the style I was referring to. I just have trouble getting down in that slot to strop and get a decent thin edge. I used the rouge on a string deal, rouge on the edge of hard cardboard, and on the wider ones I used rouge on the edges of firm thin leather. Those Osbornes seemed to be the best in that style edger too. Some of them are sharpened at a pretty steep bevel. Looks like some makers cut that slot with a wheel. If they lose the "hollow" and go on through, or you sharpen them up a few times and get past it, you have a steeper draggy edge. In my hands that led to chatter marks on softer leather. For the time I spent tuning them up, I am time = money ahead to use the more open end style of edger.

I have a leather thickness gauge I use. It is one of the dial gauges that TLF sells for about $30 or so. I hang it mostly by my splitters, but also use it when reducing thickness with the beltsander or bell knife skiver. Pretty handy tool to have for me. About the only time I mark for the sander is when I use the sander to "gouge" folds for checkbooks, pad holders, and that sort of thing. I mark out the margins of the gouge area on the flesh side and go to grinding. I use french edgers for thicker leather when I really need to thin a gouge, but the beltsander makes a smoother transition than the stairstep a french edger leaves. Then you skive that down. You can grind off 3 thin ones with the belt sander in that same amount of time.

Simply. A splitter would be the best. You'll probably get some advice to use a round knife or skiver. If you haven't done that before with these, it isn't simple to get good results. Probably the simplest, and a method I still use on some things is a benchtop belt sander with a coarse grit belt. Keep it moving a bit, but I have almost zero scorching with the beltsander. I think the coarse grit is eating the leather off faster than it is polishing and heating up. Works well in my hands, this is also how I skive folds in belts and straps. Is that cheating?

Start a new thread JW. Those cinches are drop-dead gorgeous, and I want to hear you talk about them!!

Yep, nice convex edges. and I find them much easier to sharpen/strop than the other slotted style edgers. On the bisonette you need to be careful to use the right radius or you will enlarge the hole and make the cuts progressively wider. Also need to be carefull on the bisonettes so you are not running into the opposite edge if you are using power equipment. My wife prefers the bisonettes, the forward edge is like training wheels. Other than that, I'll go back to the slotted ones when they pry my cold dead hands off any of these I have. (Not an original phrase).

Hilly, In no particular order - Ron Edmonds (Rons Tools - www.ronstools.com) Round bottom edgers. Barry King - bisonette edgers. Jeremiah Watt(www.ranch2arena.com) round bottom edgers, bisonette edgers, Vizzard pattern edgers. Bob Douglas may still have some left, but is out and wasn't planning to make any more of some sizes. You won't go wrong with any of these guys' tools. Be aware that size numbers are not interchangable between makers.

Thanks for showing a picture of it Russ. When you were describing them, I was having trouble visualizing it. Now I know I have seen them, and didn't know what they were.

Ryan, Welcome to the group. Looking forward to seeing what you have developed. We've got enough people around here with different experience we can get you through about whatever you come up against, including the scariest sewing machine in Tippecanoe county. I lived up the road in Logansport for a while. I also lived across the river from you in West Lafayette for 6 years (Purdue - class of '84) too. I went back 5 years ago - I could still eat a full order of biscuits and gravy at the Triple X Drive In, followed by a Friday afternoon at Harry's Chocolate Shop. Life was simple again for a day.

Another great one. I like the lines on this one, and the seat jockey is excellent. A bell ringer for sure. Keeps us all inspired to see the great work here lately. I appreciate that several of the top end guys like yourself are sharing advice too.

You guys just keep raising the bar. Thanks for showing this one. Way cool.

I didn't have any problems with hair coming up through the stitch holes. I machine stitched all of them, and I have always used the short slick haired Brazilian hides. I get them from Saddleman's of Santa Fe, but the wholesale ones, those hides came from Texas Wholesale Leather as I recall and they were short haired too. For the stray hairs that stick out the sides, I singe them with a candle or lighter, then slick the edges. I just did a bunch of binders (winelists for a restaurant) and they all had inlay covers with no stray hairs. I think that handsewing with sticky waxed thread might pull hairs up through the holes though. You might need to slick your thread like for handsewing sheepskins. Pull it through a folded newspaper or brown bag to slick and burnish the wax to keep it from grabbing hair.

Butch, I have done a couple hundred with the hide inlaid into a one piece belt. Basically cut a wide slot and left a sewing edge to sew through the top, inlay, and liner. Some we left this edge wider and put spots on it. Some we plugged to raise the hair-on flush with the surface. We found that plugging them raised the hair-on up enough to wear from calf ropes and seat belts faster. Eventually she just ordered them unplugged. She added whatever conchos or bling the customer wanted. I probably did 50-75 like you are describing too. We glued the hair-on to a stiffer liner (5 oz or so commercial oak from Siegels) and edge sewed it. The billet ends were sandwiched over the ends of the center and sewn through. If you didn't get the bottom of the billet lined up close enough, there was a chance you could miss it and say bad words. We added conchos at the overlap to take some of the stress off just the stitchline holding things together. This is the way the sample she sent me was made, and eventually the imports could be bought for half the price I made them for. After that deal went extinct I have made some in a design that is more forgiving. I glue the hide to the liner cut to width and long enough to line the billets too. Then I just have to sew the billet tops on. I think the one piece liner makes them stronger, smoother lined, and dang sure easier to sew.

Richard, Happy Birthday from Rundi and I. Enjoy the time with the grandkids.

Steve and Greg, Thanks for more info on the brown apron split. I need to try some, it sure looks better than the grey-blue of the pearl splits.

GH, At least for me, the pearl apron splits just are the better choice. I have had guys try the cordura ones, and had nails stick through the weave and pin a guy to the hoof. I have had guys try the thinner chap leather ones with mulehide knee patches and had nails stick through the softer leathers. These same guys say they haven't had a nail penetrate mulehide. I am sure someone has, but it just seems the mulehide has stood the test of usage a little more. Any of the grained leathers are going to wear away with a rasp, and the softer ones are maybe going to open up there. The grained leathers get rough and look worse, and the roughout mulehide wears smooth and looks better. What's up with that?! The biggest complaint is that some mulehide is pretty stiff and some isn't. The stiffer stuff is a pain to deal with sticking out in front of your knee until it breaks in and drapes. I buy my mulehide from Siegels. I use the lighter weight for the body, and ask for them to pick something more to the soft side. I use the heavier weight for the leg patches. Mine are actually a stripe that cross the entire thigh rather than a patch inside and just over the knee. The stiffer and wider patch seems to give them some relief for the guys who don't use a hoof stand, and finish off on their knee or crawl under the back and finish the outside of the hoof on their thigh. I can then make the magnet covers and knife pockets from the softer light weight trimmings. I also like the larger scraps of the softer stuff for lining strainer plates. It lasts way longer than what some companies stick under there. The long pieces I cut horn wraps from, and the heavier ones I can split down to wrap easier. Finally mulehide is pretty cost effective compared to some of the other leathers.

Another source for sheepskins is Siegel's. I was using the Lazy Ms and liked them much better than I could get anywhere else. I took a swatch down to Siegels when I went to visit and showed it to Steve. He started getting these LMs in, and I have found them to be as good as the Lazy Ms. The color is more to the golden side like most others, rather than the orangish tint of the Lazy Ms. Usual deal of Siegel's shipping included pricing is a plus for me too.

Johanna, I have seen those on the wall in shops where guys do shoe and boot repair. I don't know if they were a give-away deal or they bought them. Probably would be good for checking sole leather weight, ot something hard like that. I have one of the little caliper-dial models that works pretty well. I think I got it from TLF. I have it hanging within an easy reach of the splitters and use it quite a bit.

kypeep, No rules on what anybody uses under the gullet. Some use nails all the way, others might use screws in the front and the point of the skirt up in the handhole, with nails under the fork. For screws I use #10 SS oval head Phillips wood screws from the local happy hardware man. I use 1-1/2" front and back, and 1" under the fork. On the front and handhole I use finishing washers with them. I use them without washers under the gullet. I predrill them most of the length and use a spike to set the hole. If you drill pretty slow, you can avoid rolling up the wool and sheepskin around the drill bit as much. If you wind up the fake stuff, it will tear and you will say bad words. As far as nails. I have taken out common nails, cement coated nails, box nails, ring shanks, and screw shank deck nails. I haven't seen lathe nails for a while. As far as cleaning and conditioning, there is a reason that there are a couple hundred things to use. Be sparing with what ever you use. You can over oil easy enough, we all have. Just because it soaks up oil pretty fast doesn't mean it is in need of more. I go more by feel. I quit about when I think I am half way there. By the next day, I am usually glad I quit then.

kypeep, I got the pictures to open up. If you save them as a jpeg, they should upload and open directly. Someone more computer literate can help with that. I don't know Coats's numbering system, but I would suspect made in 1999 also. Lift the front jockeys and we should be able to tell you more. I used to cut a little. I worked for Keith Barnett during college. That was special time, he had a non pro customer who was showing Doc's Starlight (mother of the "Starlights") and an old campaigner named Kingstream, that I recall might have come from Cletus originally through Tootie Lyons. Some of the great sires of the modern horses were showing then. I appreciate what I was seeing more now than then. Thanks for the compliment on my little paint. He was the coolest, guttiest horse I have ever had. I got him as a junior rodeo horse for my son. He had a little too much motor and I started showing him at some club cuttings. The pic is from the Paint World Show when I showed him in the senior open and amateur there. He was a cool rope horse too, he'd pull a dragger out of a well. You always regret selling the one good we are all supposed to have in our lifetime.

Kypeep, Cletus Hulling, that name is a blast from the past. Ditto what JW said about most competent repair shops being able to do the fix. Larry Coats has a couple lines of saddles and I am not sure how the skirts are attached. About the only time this is a major thing is if a maker's skirts are sewn up to pocketed bars by machine. I have had two that the stitch line tore out through the skirts - postage stamp style, and this meant new skirts. Most of the time though it is a thread wear problem, the skirts are fine, and resewing is all that's needed. If it is lugs, even easier, pull some new ones through and stick them to the tree with the fastener of choice. It would be worth having a shop go through the saddle and make sure the tree, riggings, and leathers are OK too. Once something starts to wear, you can bet that something else has some wear on it too.

Ian, Joseph Samstag opened the Samstag Saddlery in Visalia CA in the 1850s. The rigging pattern became known as the Sam Stag rigging, Sam Stagg rigging, and Sam Stack rigging. He died in 1913, but not sure how long the shop was in business. Because of the name confusion, some of the writers of the saddlemaking books have stated that there wasn't a Sam Stag/Stagg/Stack. I am not sure I have seen a Samstag saddle in a musuem that I recognised, but would have to suspect the Autrey Museum would be a good bet for locating one.

This is some kind of cool. I like it all, and especially the rawhide loop. I know, everybody is nuts over the scrollwork and applique braiding, and I like the rawhide loop. I've just never seen it quite like that. I can see a few other places I can use that loop to finish off a closure and not go to the silver. I have about a weeks worth of catch up, and then I am thinking I'll show my wife that pic. She'll be wanting one. How did you finish off the backside?

Luke, I had one and it was adequate. The blade was pretty OK, a little bit steep on the bevel, but held an edge alright. The issues were that with the depth guide on, it wouldn't raise the roller up closer than 5 oz thickness to the blade. The roller/blade was not an exact marriage. One side was a bit lower. on narrow straps this was not an issue for me. I sold it to a machinist and he tuned it up by grinding down the area the blade seats on to split thinner and evened up the blade-roller relationship. He also did some fine-tuning on the guide. If you are dead set on that pattern of splitter, aren't a machinist, and want new, I'd save another couple hundred and buy a Keystone from Campbell-Bosworth. For the $300, you can find some good used Osborne 84s or other old workhorse models from someone.