bruce johnson

NBY, I am not trying to come off as a smart ---, but a few more questions here. What kind of tree is it? What are your plans for it? Are you comfortable with the tools? Is there any maker locally who you can go to for help? Not having a camera is going to be a bit of a hindrance to many being able to "see" what you have done and maybe what you are talking about as you progress. That said, there are a couple of middle of the road tutorials I think you ought to have a look at. One is Harry Adams' book The Saddle Maker's Shop Manual. Helps with making up your own patterns and good pictures about what is going on. I don't do everything like he does. I don't use screws for my strainers, and there are probably others who do things the same or different. Like Bob and Chris have mentioned, no two guys probably do things alike anyway. The other source that will get you some help is Bill Gomer's Saddlemaking video set. Good basic video that will show you in motion what to do. You could probably have both of these for under $200. It will be worth it in leather saved. Bottom line is that still would be way better to have someone looking over your shoulder.

Tae, I got that big compass/divider at an antique store - $6. We collect a few things that are "Johnson" - Johnson fishing reels, old Johnson wax containers, Johnson soda bottles, Johnson and Johnson, etc. The lady who runs this shop found this for me - a William Johnson Newark, NJ compass. It has US Navy etched on the back. Probably a surplus deal from one of the naval depots in the area. Close guess on the size - it it 24". It is just a peach for scribing out big circles for rope cans and rope bags.

Brent, Not a plough gauge that they are using. Cool looking tool though. Scary when he runs that round knife there towards the left hand right after that, huh. Bob, I let a couple newer Dixon plough gauges get by me on Ebay that went past my maximum bid. My Ebay theory is to not pay more than half of new retail on anything currently made. This Barnsley came up in early April and I got it bought for $96.55. Sometimes you do eat the bear. When I got it the blade was at the back of the stops and still appeared to have a factory grind with a flat edge on the front to have the final sharpening done by the user. I am guessing the blade was unused. It has its whole life ahead of it. The blade is a Dixon but fits perfectly. There are mating numbers on the frame and slide like the old draw gauges made here, so it might be pretty old. The 2/3 and 3/4 cuts alright with the plough gauge. I think the longer fence and length of the blade on the plough gauge help to keep leather tracking more true than the draw gauge with an inch of blade at best. I think the plough gauge might have the same issues as the draw gauge on flexible leather. It can wad up between the blade and guide and wander. For the soft leather this is one place I think the wooden strap cutters shine. I put a brand new stropped razor blade in mine, and then make a starting cut with a knife. I set the bars so they are just kissing the leather no gaps to wad up and pull away on the tail. I have one of those third hand bench clamps with the fence wire stretcher cam action. I can clamp the end in there and just back away and watch the tension. When my first wife was doing some beading I could make some pretty even strips of deerhide or piglining that way.

Brent, I started off with the original wooden strap cutters and liked them. There are some knockoffs that are not as precise. I got a draw gauge and liked that alright once I learned a few important safety lessons, one the hard way. I ended up and scored on an old guy selling out his collection of draw gauges last fall and picked up some great oldies. I set one for each common width and thought I was in fat city. A few months ago, I visited a friend's shop and he was taught by an English worker. He used a plough gauge, which I think is what you are describing. I ran a strip with it, seemed simple enough. My local Aussie buddy has his dad's old Dixon and while he will loan me a collection of old stamps to kill for, the plough gauge stays with him. He says if you ever get one, you won't cut with anything else. I got a nice old Barnsley a couple months ago off ebay. Sharpened it up and holy crap, haven't picked up a draw gauge since. Brownie's words ring true - "Toldja, mate!!". They show up from time to time on ebay. Bob Douglas has them sometimes too. Otherwise you can buy a Dixon from Siegels here in the US, or from Abbeys in England. I don't know if anyone else carries them here in the US.

Rusty, I like your tagline there. I'd have some problems with following it though. I'd over and under my wife and be sleeping with the horse. Things'd go better vice versa. CS, Are you just taking it apart to see how it is put together or to fix and restore it? Planning to use it afterwards or cosmetic restore? What kind of saddle and who made it? Got any pictures of it as is now? Take pictures as you go. Go slow and easy. If something pulls too hard, there is usually a reason. I pull the fenders first to get them out of the way. Pull the latigos off and the back billets too. Then I remove the conchos or cut the bleed off the strings (unless they are primo) and remove them, the latigo carriers, and start looking out. There will be staples, tacks, finishing nails, nail heads, other things hidden in the dust, hair, and grunge waiting to rip you open. One of the worst infections I ever got (worse than a cat bite, Denise) was from a broken staple leg under a latigo carrier. I use a little tack claw, vice grips, and a small claw hammer to pull things. You can't ever predict who uses what and where. Once you get the front jockeys loose, carefully lift the front end. I usually tie back through a hole to keep one side out of the way. Skirts are usually fastened with lug straps or bar pockets. Unscrew the pockets or carefully cut the stitching. The lugs can usually be pulled off the tree by pulling tacks or undscrewing them if they have screws. Remove the screws that are buried in the skirt at the points up in the handhole area. Proabalby a couple ringshank nails in the gullet holding the top of the skirts up in there, and a screw at the gullet front. Drop the front jockeys and carefully remove the fasteners at and under the seat jockey ear. Then I loosen the rear jockey concohs and assorted fasteners by them and the cantle arch. The rear jockeys should just slide off then. Remove whatever method is used to hold up the back skirts and drop them. If you really want to get down to the tree, now is as good a time as any to cut the cantle binding stitches and remove it. Then you can pull the seat and ghet it out of the way. Most are glued down to some degree, and you'll say bad words if yopu just pull and tear the seat in half. Work easy and slow, and be careful. The second worse infection I ever got was from a loose tree nail in the dish of a cantle. Seat is off - pull the cantle back and filler. Move back to the front and turn it over. Remove any fasteners up under the gullet holding the swell cover on. Then go around the top of the bars and remove the fasteners that held the swell cover down. Some are easy and some aren't. Some swell covers have worn thin and want to tear easily. Some are glued well, some are pasted, and some have nothing. Once the swell cover is loose, I leave it alone. I flip the back up enough to remove whatever is holding down the horn cover wings. I pull them up through the horn hole and then remove them. The other alternaive is to cut the horncover off from the top, pretty hard piece ot salvage usally for me. Then pull the swell cover off once the horn is bare, trhat horn hole can tear pretty easily if I try to pull some over a covered horn. If the horn is staying, I dampen the horn hole area and let it sit a while, then saddle soap the horn neck, horn gullet, and edges of the cap to help things move and slide. Then you can unscrew the riggings and pull them. About all that is left is the ground seat and work slow and easily to pull that. That should be about it.

Kelly, Cute little horse, and he looks like he could drag a dead steer out of a well. It sounds like if you got a saddle to fit this horse, there are more like him around so the deaal about not being able to find another to fit might not be much of an issue. If you got one, it fits and whatever happens on down the road, those people might like that saddle. They'd probably be dealing with the same issues of finding something to work on their bulldoggy horses. As far as the past issues with saddle fit, it does sound frustrating. I would be suspicious of a few things Denise has already touched on. One is the profile of the bottom of the bars. He looks fairly full in the pictures. Some treemakers put a more crown in their bars than others. If you are familiar with Dennis Lane's card system - they are making "S" bars. If you have a horse with a flatter back the center of that crown is putting more pressure on. A flatter bar ("D" profile) will spread it out more. If all the saddles you try are crowned bars, the angles and spreads might be within tolerances, pretty much ride alright and stay put, but the saddle still will have a ridge of pressure down the center of the bar. I am going to step out and suggest something here. You are going to probably have issues trying to find a saddle without squeezing a lot of lemons trying to find one to make lemonade. You can try several brands of saddles and still might be trying all the same or very similar trees in every one of them. You might need some spread, rock and bar length stuff that just isn't out there very commonly. You are in SW Iowa. I would load up Halfie and take him on a bus ride to see Jon Watsabaugh if he is willing. Pretty sure he lives near Des Moines. Jon is a member here and makes saddle trees. He could probably set a few bar patterns on him see what is going to work and what isn't. Even if a custom saddle is not in the cards, at least you'd have an idea of what might work, and eliminate a boatload of what won't.

Bryan, We are going over to it. No past track record on this show as is. This is the first year for it at this time of the year. For a few years the show was sponsored by Ferdco and was in April. It ws a month after the Wickenburg AZ show and a month before the Sheridan WY show. That hurt it a little bit for attendees and vendors. The people there were serious. Having this show in July has got some vendors pretty enthused. Barry King and Wayne Jueschke will be there for tools for sure. Barry sells swivel knives, and I am not sure if Chuck Smith is going. Bob Douglas will be there, as well as Vandy from Sheridan Leather Outfitters. I suspect Ron Edmonds will be there. Wayne also told me that he was talking to one or two guys who refurbish and deal in old leather machinery. That hasn't happened at any of the LCSJ shows to much extent. I haven't talked to Wayne for a month or so to see who all else is planning to be there.

Kustom, I don't know, but a call to Paula should answer those questions. If she doens't know exactly on the class, you can call Al Gould. He lives in Clovis, CA and should be listed in the directory. I don't have his number handy with me this morning.

Kate, Some people have better luck maintaining a bevel angle by holding the blade and having whatever you sharpen against fixed on the bench. I don't. I leave my blade flat on the bench right at or just overlapping the edge. Then I use something long to sharpen with and work from the back edge of the blade. I prefer the DMT diamond stones with the plastic folding handles. One of my friends (we'll call him "Stub") was working a stone from the front and one of his former finger tips was gripping the side of the stone. On an push stroke the newly sharpened blade skived it off to about the first knuckle. You can also wrap and tape or staple fine sandpaper to a hardwood stick and work that from the back too. I strop and polish on the wheel. Kind of my rule of thumb is to strop my splitter blades in use about once a week for sure. More often if I am using them heavy, and definitely right after if I have run some mulehide through one. Mulehide and a little moisture seem to cause insta-rust. For oil I use a mix of hydraulic jack oil and a little Prolong oil additive that was recommended for my sewing machines.

Ricky, If it is the same Dixon, it has been on ebay at least twice before and never hit the minimum bid. I think the last time was something like $450. The Dixon looks kind of like the Osborne 86. Somebody must like them, because Osborne stopped making the ones I like and still make the 86. Ryan has better feedback on his than the Tandy professional model that costs about 3 times as much. If I wanted one right now, and didn't want to dink around waiting for a deal, Ryan has the deal right now. If you are looking for the sleeper on Ebay right now, bid on the Krebs. My wife says I can't.

Yep, you are looking at it on ebay and it is slightly misrepresented as a splitter, although I guess a crown splitter fits the same deal. It is a sole cutter. The only splitting it does is to cut things, not thin them down. What you are looking at only cuts leather with the cutting wheel on the end. Kind of handy to cut hard sole leather and horseshoers use them to trim pads. That is about the extent of it. They kind of trade for around $100, but that one looks to be in better than average condition. Just depends on whether you think you'd use it. If you are leaning that way, I'd hunt a good 3in1 instead and have the crank skiver. I used that more on the 3in1s I had.

I have seen them too. The topcoat on some of the production saddles is a pigmented finish, almost like a light tan spray paint. It makes it easier for them to get consistant coloring. I talked to one guy at a shop who thought it was maybe an LCI product he was using. (He knew exactly what it was, but wasn't going to tell me I'm sure). The problem is when this stuff flakes or wears off and the customer adds a conditioner, the bare areas take it up and the saddle is pretty mealy looking. Short of stripping it off and oiling to whatever works, the customer is stuck with what they have.

Maybe it is just me, but that is how I do them for thinner leather and if I want the top to fit tight to the pocket. I sew right in that line and the second line about where your other groove line is. Then I put a rivet in each end of the flap between the two parallel stitch lines to help prevent tear out. I use either small copper rivets or quick rivets depending on the look I want.

It seems like every January there are about 5 new barrel saddle models on the market. I figure they've got them ready to roll out, and the top five finishers at the NFR in December get an endorsement contract and the saddles have a name by the time of the Denver Market. If you are looking for used, a lot of my barrel racing customers like the old Connie Combs from Circle Y. I've rebuilt several and retreed a few. Hadlock and Fox made the trees for them, and while they were still in New Braunfels made me the duplicates. Of course after a long wait and duplicate pricing they told me they are a production stock tree for them still, just not cataloged. Off the top of my head I think they are their #870 model. Edit - got home and double checked. The Connie Combs tree is H&F's #890.

Not a necessity, but an alright tool. I don't use it within carving patterns. It doesn't make the darker burnish of a beveling stamp, and if you really bear down it to get the depth, control for me is lost. I use it for beveling along beadlines lightly to break that sharp corner on the outside of the cut, and add a little texture. I also use it inside a cut border before stamping. Before I got it, I would drag a steep beveler by hand in the cut to do that. The wheel goes faster and smoother.

I'd sure consider the #1 Saddle oil with Fungicide too. Pretty sure it is a Bee Natural product.

Janice, The only one I have seen like the American had a price of $200 on it. I see the little Singers in the antique stores a fair amount. Usually priced from $75-125.

A few other suggestions here and points of interest. When your leatherwork is a business you get to do more paperwork, which also takes time away from the shop. On the upside, you get to deduct a lot of the stuff that as a hobby or hidden business "for cash or beer" under the IRS radar can't. Your tools don't cost you anymore, they reduce your income on the business. Your trips to Sheridan - mostly free. My trip to the guild show this fall (seeing my folks who live by Indy) - mostly free. Mileage to the post office, hardware store, visit the relatives 150 miles away and stop by TLF and get some NF oil - deduction. When I seriously needed to pay bills I did almost my salary from the other job working nights and weekends for myself for two years. Other than a sewing machine, I didn't buy much in the way of tools or equipment in that time. Since things have changed, we were renting and I could afford to let the leather income slide relatively in favor of getting better tools and more productive equipment while that primary income is there to support us. Splurge on a drawdown stand, cool splitter, or draw gauge once in a while and it just reduced the tax I paid elsewhere. We bought the place a year ago, and so the income from the leather business is more important than upgrading it again. Other than a few stamps, I am satisfied that the equipment and setup I have will carry me for quite a while now. One of my small business advisors was retired from running a gas station that had 3 service bays. There are a lot of similarities between it and the leather business. Inventory management, equipment and tools, etc. His advice for growing a business was to "improve tools and equipment when you can, make money when you have to, and plan so you don't have to do both at the same time".

It depends on what you are looking for. I get most of mine from Hansen's Silver. They wholesale only and set up at most all the leather shows. They supply to many of the production shops as well as one man shops. (800) 971-7391. They are across town from me, so I can just pick up there and not have to keep much on hand. Another guy I have bought from that I like a lot is Dale Bass in Amarillo, TX. The phone number I have for him is (806) 373-1235. He has some patterns Hansen's don't and does what I think is a whale of a job. There are quite a few good companies and individual makers out there, but for my money vs. value, these two work.

If you are in that part of the state it sounds to me like you need to meet Wayne Christensen at Standing Bears Trading Post in Reseda. Great guy and a talented leatherworker. He has group classes and also individual classes. I know there are more than a few members here who have taken classes and can give you more information and testimonials. There is a guild or two down there also.

I got into this deal being taught to do my own repairs and a little tooling by a family friend who had a saddle shop. When I had slack time I'd sit and watch them build saddles. I went along for a few years not doing much. Broke my pelvis one fall and took some Tandy classes and got a little better. I made my wife a handstitched belt and then she asked for a headstall. Did one and pretty soon I was doing 5 a week, one a day. We'd sell them off my saddlehorn at events we'd go to and pay fees and gas. I made at least 150 of them for sure. I did some little award deals - checkbooks, planners, and clocks mostly along with headstalls and breast collars. At some point in there I got a Boss for the sewing, and a business license to be able to buy what I needed at decent prices. When my wife kind of unexpectedly died, I was left a month later with $55K in medical debt the insurance wouldn't pay and the hospital wouldn't write off, and other bills. More than my annual salary which wasn't going to change, and I had a 16 year old son and living with an in-law. The leather business took on a new importance. I got hooked up with a small business advisor and some free courses. Somewhere along in there I got Brenner's book and applied the principles to my pricing. Through a friend I got hooked up with a mobile tack business that went to the NFR, rodeos, and horseshows. She wanted someone to do custom orders, and make some wholesale products for them. I learned more in those years than anything. Pricing took on a new importance, planning ahead and streamlining, and having to "just do it" gaves a guy focus. I bought a sewing machine for $2200 with no clear idea how I was going to pay for it. Thank you, Arizona WPRA for the order that night! (Went to Cowboy Church that night, came home and got an awards order with $2500 profit as I walked in the door to home, it was a God thing). The custom orders expanded my range of things I could make, and the award and wholesale stuff taught me to be production minded. I told my girlfriend that we were not getting serious until my debt was paid off. December 8th, 2003 at the NFR I picked up a check for some consignments that paid it off. That night she flew in and met me that the 8th round at Thomas and Mack, we got engaged right there. The business has changed some since then. The major business I wholesaled to got sold, and I really haven't pursued the wholesale or award orders like I used to. We both have other incomes, but basically we are starting over with half your life gone. We need to pay this place off in about half the time it takes everyone else. I have bought some toys/splitters for the shop, as well as stuff that increases productivity. Also a few things that just plain make it more of pleasure to work in. I build a few saddles, along with a pretty wide range of things. The business varies, and I am not doing just one thing. I can slow down, charge more, and do some more intricate work (when I haven't got some lame injury to deal with). What I get orders for varies. If I was just doing limited things, I'd be slower. Last year after the shop remodel I did a lot of ropecans and ropebags late in the year. This year so far I did some little stuff, an awards deal, a really cool rope can, and the 4th saddle should be done this weekend. I am seeing an increase right now vs the last couple years in the total. I didn't have the website last year, but the local business and repeat distant customer business is up this year too. It didn't happen overnight and I know there are gonna be more ups and downs.

Casey, The thing holding me back on it is no stamps anywhere else. The Herefords pretty much have a stamp on the fenders. The old Porter I have almost has more maker stamps than other stamping. I think it is maker stamped in about 5 places. This one sure could have a maker stamp under the seat. On that note, I have seen some of the Tennessee saddles that have the padded seat going over the tooling. Looks like they pressed out the design with the same dies whether it was going to a slick seat or padded. With just a number on the latigo catcher, hard to say. Could be a serial number, date stamp, or model number depending on the maker. Those leaves are huge for sure. On the front view of the swells, the pattern doesn't follow the front jockey or gullet lines much. I am thinking diestruck there too. And just what was the attraction with that yellow seat anyway?? Seems like they either all had them, ot they were just too gross to ever get used and have survived. Another name for the mix - Bona Allen?

Bob, Great job. I really like how you kept those central flowers above the others by bringing the continuing stem underneath. It really makes them pop. WOW. Bruce

That saddle is a bad memory for me. It reminds me of a Hereford I rode (sort of rode) as a kid. That slick seat, sloped back to the cantle seat, and low cantle made the perfect way for that old pig to take a mild jump and I'd slide right out the back. If you held the horn you'd lean forward enough she'd stop dead and you'd fall forward. I am not seeing any maker stamps where Textan/Hereford marked them though. What is the stamping on the latigo keeper? Any mark under the cantle back?

I haven't had this happen before. I have had three emails rejected today being sent to or replied to MSN.com and hotmail.com emaill addresses. Two of these came from LW.net readers, one asking for contact information for a supplier. If you two read this, I am not ignoring you, just can't get through your email system's filters. PM me through the board or phone me through the number on my website linked in my signature. Here is the message I am getting - ...."(reason: 550 SC-001 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. Reasons for rejection may be re...l/network admins, please visit http://postmaster.live.com for email delivery information and support) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx4.hotmail.com.: >>> MAIL From:<bjohnson@fire2wire.com> SIZE=4980 <<< 550 SC-001 Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. Reasons for rejection may be related to content with spam-like characteristics or IP/domain reputation problems. If you are not an email/network admin please contact your E-mail/Internet Service Provider for help. Email/network admins, please visit http://postmaster.live.com for email delivery information and support 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable" Something new going on with hotmail and msn? What I can read and understand is that my ISP has to apply and jump through some hoops to prove to Hotmail that their customers are worthy of being able to send emails to hotmail and msn accounts. Am I reading it right?