dikman

That little curly piggy-tail is certainly....different. I'm curious as to its function.

I take the back roads, but a lot of them have reduced speed limits now. Still, riding the Bonnie (2005 model, carbies, no computer) takes me back to the 60's/70's. In many ways a much simpler time. And yeah .

Sometimes.... I'm just trying to figure out what he's actually asking, in simple terms ('cos I'm a simple person). So far I obviously don't know.

I just read the title more carefully - 135 thread (doh! me dummy!). I had problems with my old 335 when I first tried 138 thread (it worked fine with 69), it was dropping stitches and causing fraying due to the hook snagging the twists in the thread. I had to tweak the position of the hook saddle (can't think what it's called at the moment, the bit holding the shuttle assembly). I found it was pretty fussy adjusting it so that the hook would catch the thread correctly. Also the thread tension take-up spring (the one mounted on the tension discs) needed tweaking a bit. The photo also suggests to me that a bigger needle may help.

What size thread? Looks like #138?

Ah, but it's a Limited Edition, so must be worth having . (You wear silk shorts?). So, today being an almost perfect day for it, I got out the Bonneville and went for a ride through the Hills to the cherry farm, to get some Christmas cherries. While enjoying the scenery, and the obligatory disgustingly nice cherry slice and cream (I look forward to it every year) and coffee, I pondered this thread, trying to figure out what I am obviously missing (besides the obligatory brain cells). So, how does this sound - the OP would like a list of various machines, with their specifications and characteristics that make them suitable for sewing the type of material they are designed for, so that he can enter the data into a spreadsheet/database and then analyse it to determine which machine he should buy (even though, at the moment, he has absolutely no idea what said machine will be used for). He did say that what they can sew is not a factor in making a decision. Yes/no?

Yep, because the reason everyone asks "what are you wanting to sew" is because it's the logical starting pointing in deciding on a suitable machine. The reason it matters is because that will determine what is needed. Steve (above) has already suggested several possibilities, but none of those machines will be suitable for every contingency. If, as you said earlier, your intention is to have a machine handy just in case you might need it later, without knowing what that need might be, then really you will need more than one machine. Every analogy you have used (including the hammer) always comes down to the lowest common denominator - what is it going to be used for? Once you know that then you start looking at what's needed to achieve that. Much of that information is already here, and Wiz's excellent sticky sums up most of it. If, however, you don't want to start from the "what do you want to sew" premise then basically, read, read and read some more in order to try and understand how different sewing machines are designed for different jobs. There is no other alternative due to the complexity of the subject. That is how most of us, who weren't raised in the industry, learned. Even Madmax, who obviously understands where you're coming from, hasn't been able to give you what you want.

Would be a nice machine. I nearly bought one but it meant going interstate, I still regret not going to get it as the price was very good! I'm not a programmer, so I'm trying to figure out what the OP actually wants, as the usual (logical) question of "what do you want to sew" obviously doesn't apply here. Is it a list of all machines, with pertinent data such as motor type, needle size, thread size, foot clearance, type of "action" (straight stitch, walking foot etc) and finally what they can sew? (I can't find a "puzzled" smiley).

I can understand why. We're going in circles.....

Your analogy to fishing is interesting, you say you want the pole not the fish, but if you asked on a fishing forum what fishing rod should I get guess what they would say? "What type of fish are you after?" Because the type of fish (to the knowledgeable fisherman) largely dictates the the type of rod, type of reel, size of line, lure/sinker/bait etc etc. In other words that is the starting point, just as with sewing machines what you want to make will dictate the type/size of machine you will need. That is a given. It doesn't matter how much one talks about other factors that is the crucial question. You are already aware that a machine that can handle heavy/large thread (and obviously thicker material) has a lower limit in that it will be extremely difficult to do fine work with it - if not impossible. This is why people usually have more than one machine. If you decide to call a dealer/manufacture to enquire about machines, guess what they will ask first - "what do you want to sew?" The answer to that question will determine which machines they talk about. A spreadsheet full of all this information would be a wonderful thing indeed, and in fact has been suggested before (usually by someone who is relatively new to all this) but nothing has ever eventuated mainly, I suspect, because they began to realise the enormity of the task.

My 1.5c worth. You're right, it really starts with what you want to make as that will determine what you need.If all you're going to make is wallets, lightweight dress belts etc (i.e. thin leather) then you have a much bigger range to choose from because you don't need high clearance under the foot, high lift, heavy needles and heavy thread (assuming it will be either #69 or #138). A flat bed will be more than adequate, although you could use a cylinder arm as well, which will then make it easier to sew bags etc. This range is probably where the vast majority of machines fall into. If, however, you decide to get into making holsters, cowboy action-type holsters and gun belts then these machines won't cut it. This is when you get into the heavy-weight stuff - usually cylinder arm, because they're more versatile - with high clearance under the foot (ideally 3/4" or more), large needles to handle heavier thread, and more grunt to drive the needle through the thicker leather. From there you can get into the seriously heavy stuff that can punch through almost anything you can get under the foot! Usually with a seriously heavy price tag. As for features, again it depends what you are making. For most people, however, particularly newbies, a servo motor is probably the most important thing to have (a clutch motor can put the fear of God into you pretty d*** quick!!!). Reverse is nice to have, for backstitching. They will generally have either a knee lift or a foot-operated lift, which one is best is debatable and it comes down to personal preference. I'm sure others will join in with comments from a slightly different perspective than mine, which is good because I'm sure I've overlooked quite a few things!

Yeah, funny thing about the Harley (although $20,000 PLUS would be more like it!). I have a Moto Guzzi and a Bonneville in the shed and reluctantly have decided to try and sell the Guzzi - but the Bonnie stays!!! I don't do a lot of heavy leather work, although I believe if I wanted to there is a small market out there for cowboy holster/belts, particularly if the price is right. While the machines I have are more than adequate for anything else I do, it still doesn't stop me lusting after a Cowboy . I suppose the other machines have just whetted my appetite .

Leatherator, download the manuals for the 152 - 155 models - they're free, just do a search - and they will have the nominal settings/adjustments (although these are for walking foot models). The 152 - 154 are set for 10 mm (3/8") and the 155 is 1/2" (I think, I know it has a higher lift than the others). I have mal-adjusted mine to take a thicker leather, but that creates additional problems as the needle bar then hits the leather unless it is also lifted and then you need longer needles and then if you want to sew thinner stuff you have to re-adjust everything back to normal...bit of a pain, really. Much easier to operate it within the constraints it was designed for.

Steve, that pricing I came across certainly makes yours competitive. No doubt, if I searched more, I could probably find something a bit cheaper but for an item like that I wouldn't consider it worth the risk unless it was significantly cheaper. I would love a Cowboy, but for my uses I cannot justify the cost (heck, for that money I can buy myself a nice Winchester 73 and a couple more revolvers!!). Unfortunately I've never seen one come up second-hand, which says a lot about the machines. A friend of mine recently got one at a very good price, but only because a mate died and his wife asked him to help dispose of his leather gear (the machine had hardly been used due to his ill-health). He did the right thing by her but still got a good deal.

Just looking on AliExpress (Chinese ebay) and came across a Cowboy 3200 for around AU$2400. Pity about the shipping, another $1300!

You mean I'm supposed to do more than just put oil everywhere............

cj, a machine of that type should certainly do what you want BUT (always a but) the knife sheaths may be an issue if you try to make them too thick. While a VFD control is always a possibility if it's a 3-phase motor, as far as sewing machines go the best way is to simply fit a servo motor, regardless of what you buy. For a newbie it will make it so much easier to control the beast! Once you make up your mind to buy one the desire to do so can be overwhelming, but don't rush in. For a first machine you need to know that it actually works so that you don't have to spend time (and money) sorting out problems. There's a lot to learn about these wee beasties and it's much easier if you have a working machine to start with. There's plenty of reading on here to help you understand what will suit your needs, and don't be scared to ask as there's lots of very cluey people on here (not me, I'm still learning!!).

There you go, looks like it should do what you want! Good old Uwe, there doesn't appear to be many machines he hasn't got stashed away . That foot looks a bit rusty, Uwe, hope it's not indicative of the rest of the machine? Leatherator, I forgot to mention a servo motor, if you're going to be sewing leather it's probably the best mod you can do to the machine. My 111WSV77 (which I think is a W153) has about 3/8" clearance under the foot but I can squeeze a bit more under it, although the presser bar/vibrating foot bar need tweaking a bit. It will push a #22 needle through basically whatever I can get under the feet BUT it then needs stronger downward pressure on the presser foot to stop the leather lifting on the upstroke. This, however, is without thread as I use it to pre-punch my holes for handstitching. If I add thread the additional loading can become an issue with stitch formation - in other words I'm exceeding what it was designed for. The mechanics of the 111 class are pretty solid but the real limitations are foot clearance and needle stroke. While they can be tweaked a bit no-one is going to turn a 151 (or 152, 3, 4) into a 155, let alone a Cowboy 3200!

What brand is the thread your using? Virtually all manufacturers will use one of the generally accepted "standards" for thread designation, here in Oz the Metric (M) is the most common. My first thought, looking at your label, is its Tex 32, but that's a pretty fine thread. Can you give us any more info about what size you think you're using? I'm curious.....

It's similar to a 211G266 (I think the 466 has a bigger bobbin), which are pretty capable machines, but it all depends on what you want to sew. It could be a good deal if the price was dropped (seeing that it's untested and they can't run it - they're saying that their warehouse doesn't have a 220v feed? Bit surprising for an industrial site). Of course, that assumes the internals are ok. The rust on the handwheel says it hasn't been touched for quite a while and the foot pedal is all rust! Tilt it back on its hinges and look underneath to see if the bits are coated in oil or bone dry and rusting - if the latter then probably go no further unless you know how to rebuild one. If that's ok then try turning it over by hand, it should be fairly easy to turn, and see if the various bits go up and down. Hold down the reverse lever and make sure the feed direction reverses. Try to adjust the stitch length. The switch box on the front of the table looks like it has a cover missing (bit hard to tell), at the very least there's exposed wiring. None of the wiring matters, actually, because the best thing to do is discard the motor and wiring and fit a servo motor, but I'd just tell them that the motor and wiring look dodgy and it's going to cost to fix it. As for referring to the new cost that's irrelevant seeing that you haven't been able to buy them new for a very long time! It's basically an old machine of indeterminate condition (seeing that it can't be run). I figure that you're probably not going to buy it, but this might give you some ideas for any future machines you may look at.

When you say "adding another foot" I assume you mean turning it into a walking foot? If so, nope, can't be done. The other machines (152, 3, 4, 5) in the 111 class are walking foot, but this one is a needle feed straight stitch. If you fit a smaller pulley to the motor this will slow it down a bit and might make it a bit easier to sew with. If you're suggesting fitting a bigger, stronger motor it's probably not a good idea, as this machine was designed to sew parachute material and if you try to punch through the same thickness of leather (or thicker) then it's probably not going to be a happy machine! It will probably sew dress belts, as long as they aren't too thick, but at the end of the day it's a straight stitch, not a walking foot, so will have limitations.

Lucky stiffs!!

Your lever slot looks pretty small compared to mine. I spent some time trying to figure out how to get a longer stitch length but there's no internal adjustment. I did squeeze a bit over 1/2 a stitch extra by filing down the bottom of the silver plate that the adjusting lever moves in. I noticed that the plate was stopping the lever a bit above the cutout in the body, so by filing it down the lever could go all the way to the bottom of the slot. In your case, take off the silver cover and try the lever without it, that will tell you if it will give you any more travel.

This might help you set the bobbin carrier.

As has been said, won't work, will go poof and smoke a bit. Clutch motors are induction motors and there is no cheap way to slow them down electrically. You have three options - fit a speed reducer pulley, swap it for a servo motor (most economical way to get speed control) or swap the motor for a 3-phase motor and use a VFD to control it. The device Uwe lists is meant for electric power tools that use brush motors, will also go poof if connected to an induction motor.