fredk

I won't start the oiling just yet. I don't have enuf 3-in-1 and I'm out of olive. I'll not be shopping until Monday or Tuesday next week @SUP, I might be teaching 'granny to suck eggs' - remember to measure the quantity of the oil you'll be putting on your leather so each piece getting that oil gets the same amount. You don't need anything special to measure, a soup spoon, an egg cup, an aluminum or waxed paper bun case We are on page 3 now. This is gonna end up a loooong thread PS; I'm going to keep a note book. I'll divide it onto sections so each test piece can get its own report

yes, and a long one too. I hope I'll still be around long enuf

yes, like that. I didn't even know the name for that, There used to be a shop in the UK which sold the wire ones. They sold lots of old-style but new stock car parts for refurbishing our old cars. Some modern competition drivers used to use the wire loop ones to hold their bonnet/hood and boot/trunk lid down. Maybe use a modern s/s one. Would look more like the original ?

I want to share/discuss some reasoning for why I/we should do this. Its long winded, so look away now This is THE foremost site for leather working information. We should become a Primary source of information on the use of these common oils I've been studying history for over 50 years and early on I learnt to use primary sources first, then secondary and then tertiary Primary info is; Me, if I tell you I was in Castle Street, Belfast when a terrorist bomb blew a local bar apart and I was slightly injured and I helped the injured Secondary info is; my friend who tells you my story to you Tertiary is; my friend's sister, who tells you my story as she heard it from her brother After tertiary we just call it anecdotal and more-or-less ignore it All this in practical use; Some years ago I was a beekeeper. Due to disease and invasive pests there was a shortage of honey bees in the UK. A real shortage. A friend and I got together and we imported queen bees from parts of Europe and cross-bred them to get disease and pest resistant lines of bees. There was a large bee keeping conference in Belfast one year. And one of the points to be discussed was the banning of us doing this because we were damaging the lineage of the natural Irish honey bee. A very eminent bee keeper of outstanding character gave his written reasoning in a 30 minute lecture. It took me 10 minutes to refute his claims using 4 Primary sources and 3 secondary ones; I had obtained copies of ancient letters, one from a monk who was asking the pope for permission to import honey bees, from his home monastery in North Eastern France, because there were none in Ireland so he could not make bees wax candles for his church. Another letter was from 150 years later, a viking businessman's letter to one of his partners in Denmark ordering several hundred bee hives with bees because there were no honey bees in Ireland so they were unable to make mead and had to import the mead. Thats 2 primary. The third was a copy of a letter from a UK government inspector who reported in 1917 that the recent 'Isle of Wight' disease had wiped out every bee colony in Ireland, He could not find a single one. The 4th primary was a UK letter back to the inspector telling him that he would be getting so many hundreds of new bee colonies from the 10, 000 the UK were importing from Denmark to replace all the colonies wiped out by the disease So we have 3 x primary over a period of about 1400 years telling us that at certain times there were no honey bees in Ireland and 3 x primary telling us bees were imported from other countries Another, maybe a primary source, or maybe secondary, was another bee keeper. A top scientist who lectured at Queens University and did work for the our local government. One of his specialties was looking at the DNA of plants and insects. When he first heard me say about the monk and viking importing bees he had run DNA tests on honey bees. He and his students had got several hundreds of bees from all over Ireland, Their results were; the bees in the West and South-West were the same as Icelandic bees, bees in the South-East, the East were a mix of Norwegian and Danish, and the bees in the North were Danish. There was no separate lineage to indicate a separate Irish honey bee The second secondary source was the report from an eminent entomologist, made in the 1960s, that after years of research that the 'native Irish 'Black' honey bee' was a myth and that honey bees were not indigenous to the island of Ireland A third secondary was a research paper which listed the ancient Irish laws. Giving the penalties and compensation to be paid for certain offences and within those, which changed only slightly over 1000 year period, the mention of honey bees only shows up 10 years after the monk's letter and never before. So let us become that primary source. Our experiment may be imperfect but at least our information will not be, I read it in a book published in 1974 and they got it from such-a-such book published in 1929 sort of thing Sorry for the long ramble

I know this fitting I think. I've seen it on straps on some, just a few, cars in my vintage car club. Its like a buckle but not a buckle. Its like two hinged loops. One short loop is attached to item or end of a strap. The tongue of the strap goes through a gap between the loops and the second loop hinges over gripping the strap between the loops and that loop locks down in place. Endless adjustment without holes in the strap. Rather like how the fitting on a HGV cargo strap works, but nicer looking. But I don't know a name for it

If mold happens it happens. Its part of the experiment. To see if any oils encourage or discourage the growth of mold PS. been thinking thunks about cars in my motor club. Some of the cars, especially the larger ones have leather gaiters around their leaf springs. My car should have them around the rear springs as well. Servicing of the gaiters, other than inspecting and repair of rips, the gaiters should regularly get a good dosing of used engine oil to water-proof them

Its a very imperfect experiment. Its just see what happens, first in the short term and secondly in the longer term, but not the forever range. Its just to see, are certain oils really bad for leather? We all have our own stories. This is just a few simple tests, maybe to help dispel myths or even to prove the stories correct Myth Busters Beware! We're a commin! yes, I'm still thinking on them. Earlier I said we should put each oil/product on about 3 pieces from different hides So at least 9 test pieces, plus a control piece of each. Ech test piece will have to be at least the size of a postcard, about 6 x 4 inches Lets say test pieces from 3 different veg tan hides So, I'm thinking A. 1 of 3 will go in my 'drying' car. Its front screen points almost direct due south, about 176*. It gets the full sun on it all day. Even on cloudy days it gets hot inside. Not as hot as you would get there, but hot enough to almost fry an egg. During the night it gets colder, not until winter will it get to near or below freezing, but only down to about -1 or -2 inside the car at the lowest, about late January time B. 1 of 3 will be hung outside my flat. It will be subjected to wind, rain sunshine and damp (coldish) night air, 24/7 C. 1 of 3 will be carried in my pockets. I'll rotated them into different pockets so they each get time in different pocket, getting different amounts of wear and body temperature As I type this I'm reckoning each of those needs a plain control piece with them And I'm now thinking of maybe cutting some test pieces just so they can be slipped on my belt, to see how they fare on there I'm gonna skip having threads on the test pieces. Eliminate one uncontrollable variable I might add in Neets Foot Oil Compound to the tests Any results I get will of course just be for my environment and any results SUP gets will be for her (?) area And the thickness of the test pieces will affect results as well You got any suggestions or comments? I hope to get organised on this soon

Thank you Just a remembrance; I used to make hand-cream using beeswax, olive oil and lavender oil. Sometimes I have used this on my leather items. I don't think the olive oil ever did any harm to the leather

I'm surprised by the contents of this thread In over 23 years of leather working I have never ever had any bleed from any type of pre-dyed leather

This is not about paypal itself but your payments to others using paypal Hidden in the 'agreement' that a lot of sellers use is a clause for automatic payments via paypal Who reads that 'agreement'? We just click the box that says we have then we proceed to make the payment Recently I noticed that two payments each of 16p was taken by Royal Mail from my paypal balance. Not much, but I had not authorised these payments ~ but yet I had No explanation from RM why or what for I tracked the payments through to the 'automatic' payments in my paypal account settings It appears that on two occasions when I bought parcel postage on line I had allowed automatic payments to be taken. Probably by just clicking on the wee box that I'd read the T&Cs I was able to disable these as well any future ones One night recently I bought two lots of RM postage so in the morning after I went to my paypal account settings to check the automatic payments There were no RM ones but there was one for Jadlam ( a plastic model retailer I buy from) and one for KOBO (an ebook seller I use for my KOBO ) They are now disabled There was also two for ebay but I left them active as I use ebay a lot and if I disable them it would, allegedly, cause problems with my buying & paying on ebay Therefore; I suggest, if you have a paypal account, go check for automatic payments To get to see them you go through to your account settings using the wee gear wheel at the top of the main page Log in to your paypal account. On the home screen, click on the settings cogwheel to open a new page. Click on payments Scroll down to Automatic Payments Disable the ones you want, then check the active payments button to ensure it is disabled. Repeat above step as required Log Out.

Good choices last first; No You lot in the US have a greater range of funny types of leather than I can get. I'll not be using chrome tan, just veg. I don't have any oil tanned as far as I know. I reckon Ill try some standard veg from Tandy, some from Italy and some from Argy/South America I got from Le Prevo

@Sheilajeanne a local Lord has in his tack room a most bootiful saddle made in Italy in 1812. Its still in use but not daily. He also has carriage tack from about 1780s -1820s. I can only get to see this Lord once a year, when my car club play within his estate, and we did that at the end of August. Now I'd shure like to find who looks after his tack and have a talk with that person

@SUP Remember to keep one piece of each leather free of any oils. Its your base reference I reckon I'll be using; rapeseed oil, vaseline, Johnson's baby oil and 3-in-1 oil I too buy my threads for their colours and/or thickness. I think polyester thread can 'rot'. Long story short; we have about 350 BMW steering wheels. Sewn with polyester thread. About 2/3 or more of them the thread is or has 'rotted' and is breaking down

Not dog but a goat collar. Needed NFO'd once a month

Good plan. I'll sew some of my usual threads into the leather. But most of my thread is bonded nylon which resists most chemicals and lasts a long time. About 10 years ago I cleared out my father's fishing tackle box. One reel was still full of bonded nylon line. It was from about 1956 (supporting evidence) and was soaking in some sort of oily mixture. After cleaning the nylon line was still usable. Test strength was about 50lb. I used it as leader for beach casting for several years yes. recently I found in the back and bottom of my spare threads drawer several, 8 iirc, wenzels of linen thread from when I started leather working 23 years ago. Each card had about 10m of thread, black, brown and white. I'd bought them from Le Prevo. Some of each had deteriorated. As I unwound the thread off the cards the thread came apart in short sections, and the ends of those sections were separating into individual tiny fibres

I had a big roll of leathers damaged by meeces. They got into the very centre of the roll and chewed through several layers for to make their nests. Holes the size of a woman's fist right through each hide. None of that leather had any treatment at all. And they'd pee'd on it as well

Okee-doakly. I'll use some scrap as well and put it out in my spare 'drying' car Now, both of us should try our choice of oils on some different pieces of leather. i.e. use oils 1, 2, 3 on leather A, and on B, and on C,, that would be 9 test pieces. Keep notes Lets keep to just a few common oils. Keeps it all simpler Conditions here are very wet and getting cold.In my spare car it will be warmer, and variable. I expect conditions for you are quite different

Ok, I'll be first to be cruel, in a kind-hearted sort of way, I hope The edges look rough, they look uneven. The letters look cramped and not aligned. The background is too dark and looks uneven. That makes it harder to distinguish the porker Now, here is the way I would do this. 1. Make a cardboard template of the top. 2. Use coloured chrome tan to totally cover the top and side edges of the brush.. A nice bright colour, contact glued in place. 3. Draw around the card template on to the front/grain side of a thick piece of veg tan. 4. Cut that out but leave a big border around the shape. 5. Do the tooling on it. Move the initials further towards the centre of the length, just a bit, space them out a bit more and make sure they're aligned, Draw in your animal, a bit of tooling on its edge. 6. Apply a 'resist' on the letters and animal. Carefully dye the piece with a bright colour. 7. Paint the initials and animal, and anything else 8. Cut the extra border away from the piece, bit by bit, offering it up to check it conforms to the shape of the brush. When it does, dye and slick (smooth) its edges. Almost there. 9. Cut a piece of thinner leather, from the chrome tan maybe. Make it the same shape as the tooled piece but smaller, maybe 1/2 inch/1cm all round smaller. Glue this to the back of the tooled piece, in the centre 10. Now glue this combo onto the brush. I need to scratch the top of the chrome tan piece on the brush for the glue to work. 11. As I stick it down with strong contact adhesive, on one end of the rush I insert the ends of a length of thong or lace. The lace is about 16 inches long. 2 inches of each end are under the tooled piece leaving 12 inches loose, but doubled over giving a loop of about 6 inches, for hanging the brush 12. As I glue I use a small rubber head mallet to tap down the glued edges of the tooled piece onto the chrome tan covering the brush 13. Apply a finish to the tooled piece, polish it up 14. present fancy brush to new owner mm, I think thats it

Oim a fergittin ma maners; your cases/holsters/sheaths shore do look good and robust, ready for plenty of outdoor (ab)use

I doubt it very much. Research is money led. Only when something is affecting a big company's profits do they research & develop. No one is fussed about leather - just use the same ole thing we've used for centuries, it works, it will work, don't change it. Its not just in the leather industry but in other fields as well Jars of olive oil from about & over 3000 years ago exist and the oil is/was still good, In good airtight sealed containers veggie oils will last a very long time, hundreds of years. Once opened their life is in months. But NFO can go bad in time as well. Petroleum based mineral oils do not go rancid Just, do NOT use chicken fat or grease, without refining it maybe - in my history presentation group a chap brought me his belt pouch. It was well dried out and needed NFO. But he insisted I use fresh chicken fat/grease as 'thats what they would have used in medieval times' (uh, no, they used a version of NFO) about 3 months later he brought the pouch back to me, in a sealed plastic bag. Could I clean it? The chicken fat had gone rancid and was rotting the leather. I tried to clean it but it was too far gone. Ever smell rotting chicken? its F**king awful and sickening. That pouch was burnt by the owner We'll start. When I'm out shopping next I'll get some 'Baby oil' and vaseline. I have virgin olive oil. I'm not currently working on anything that needs oiled but soon I will be One other myth which is perpetuated on the internet is that 'ready rivets' are not strong. In my experience it is the opposite. Years ago when I was on facebooky, I asked a few of these peeps who said the rivets were not strong. None of them had used them. General answer was; 'I won't use them because I read they aren't strong.. . .'

also, when you have enuf savings to survive for 3 to 5 years without having any income

When I did a lot of camping, what is now called 'wild camping' in the UK I used a small, 6 inch, crows foot wrecking/pry bar. Multitude of uses. The hook end, or the eye on these, for pulling up the rope stakes, the flat end for splitting small logs, by putting the flat in a crack and either hitting the bar or twisting it. And for bashing that tin of beans because you forgot the tin opener! When I was a beek we used a tool called a scraper, a kind of flat pry bar. Sure wish no I had a belt sheath for carrying that, I lost quite a few in long grass, even when painted fluorescent yellow! Might be a market for someone to make belt sheaths for these

Maybe This is THE forum for US to experiment and check these things out. To get to the truth. Even the tanneries will only repeat what is said by the greater un-washed There is a discussion type which I call a circular-argument. It goes like this; I read it in a book, I put it up on an internet forum, someone else reads the forum and puts it in a magazine, I read the magazine and I know I'm right because I read it in a book and a magazine. Thats how a lot of these myths become perpetual I've thought of something. My Austin 7 car was built in December 1930. In its drive system is an item we call 'the donut', aka a fabric coupling (rear wheel drive BMW cars use something similar in looks) I have an original one from 1929. Originals are made of laminations of heavy fabric/canvas and leather, all tightly compressed and held together by those triangular plates. I know its from 1929 as the date on manufacture is stamped on one of those plates, That was retired as the rivets on one plate set ripped out during a race. Anyway, servicing of this item was to take it off at regular mileage intervals and apply some light engine oil to it to keep it supple. Not to soak it in oil, just a small amount I can say that when it came off a few years ago it was 87 years old and neither the leather nor canvas showed any signs of rot or deterioration. Another; the Austin engine was fully overhauled in 1984. I did it again in 2004. Inside the engine are some oil seal gaskets made of oil impregnated leather. They are in constant saturation with the engine oil. None of those gaskets were being destroyed by the engine oil. They were changed because they were too compressed to re-use

In my vintage car world leather straps are used to hold bonnets and boots closed, to keep spare tyres in their carriers, a lot of other places as well. Our cars spray hot and cold engine and gear box oils pretty much all over the place, over parts of the cars and passengers too. This makes it sound like we're an environmental hazard on the road but its an accumulation over time. We only use high quality mineral oil. Our engines and gearboxes cannot use the alternatives, they weren't built to do so Since I took up leather working I looked at the car straps. The straps which get the worst of the oil are the first to rot through. In places where the oil can be washed out the straps last longer but still rot. I had to replace all the straps on my car and when I did I gave them a good feeding of NFO, and used to do it regularly. My straps have lasted 24 years now. I've noticed that others in my club are replacing their straps every 3 to 5 years I think, the difference of using mineral oil on us is it is very highly refined and we are living. Our skin is a living organ and deals with it whereas leather is dead and just absorbs the oil and does nothing with it. Putting even highly refined engine oils on us can give us serious skin complaints - I know, I used to work on my cars without wearing gloves. Eventually I got serious dermatitis because of it Don't take other's words as gospel truth. Try it, experiment. If something works for you, thumb your nose at the nay-sayers

Don't dye, use shoe/boot polish to colour the parts after they are assembled. Just sponge case the leather for stamping/tooling. Then it will dry faster. In fact you (the scouts) may have to keep sponge wetting the leather as it will dry as they work on it I sometimes use coloured shoe polish just for an alternative finish. Apply with a cloth, work into the seams and tooling, buff with a clean soft cloth or shoe brush. Takes just minutes, 10 or 15 minutes at most. How long does it take you to polish up one shoe?