Lobo

All the high points have been well-covered. The only thing that I would add is wet-forming the loops to the cartridges, stretching the leather into final form. Otherwise normal wear will accomplish the stretching and over time the loops will become loose more easily. Very nice job on the Threepersons' holster!

I think this will depend quite a bit on what you are using for lining, as well as the holster construction style. Pancake-style construction (two-panels) permits forming the holster with lining in place by the usual wet-molding process, stretching the holster to accomodate the handgun. This allows the lining to stretch with the holster panels. Envelope-style construction (folded) offers some challenges. Folding the leather around the shape of the handgun can cause the lining leather to bunch up on the inside. The heavier the lining leather, the greater this problem can become. In my normal production I offer both suede and smooth leather linings. I use suede splits in the 2 -2.5oz. range. I use smooth calfskin in the 3-oz. range. Linings are cemented and sewn into the holster prior to assembly and stitching. I like Tanner's Bond for cementing the lining in place; excellent adhesion and a pretty fast "set". For pancake-style construction I have found no adjustments necessary in the patterns. I do stretch the lining leather somewhat as it is installed, which prevents bunching. Fitting the holster to the handgun can take a little more effort, but wetting the piece thoroughly prior to fitting allows easier stretching during the fitting process. For envelope-style construction I stretch the lining leather as forcefully as I can, and keep tension on the lining while the cement is setting up thoroughly. This permits the folding to be done with little or no bunching of the lining inside the holster. Again, I don't adjust stitching patterns, simply work a little harder during the forming operation (and use more moisture in the leather) to accomplish the necessary stretching. For either style I like to allow the cement to set thoroughly before proceeding, leaving the lined panels under heavy weights for several hours (or overnight) to keep the stretched lining material from contracting as the cement sets up. Heavier lining materials will offer greater challenges. Since my holsters are made of 8-oz veg-tan I haven't felt the need to apply linings heavier than 2 - 3 oz. leather. Hope this helps you.

Suggestion: since your friend is close at hand, why buy the dummy gun? Ask him to bring the pistol over so you can take all dimensions needed for your pattern, then ask him to bring it back when it is time to form the holster.

Depending upon the dye used, veg-tanned cowhide can be somewhat difficult to case. Some dyes inhibit water absorption. Soaking for 10 to 20 minutes in warm water can help.

Snaps do come in various post lengths. The post length needed can be determined by the thickness of the piece you wish to install the snap on. Leather weights are expressed in ounces, but have a direct correlation to thickness. Each "ounce" is approx. 1/64" thickness. So, 8-oz. leather is 8/64th" or 1/8" thick; 10-oz. leather is 10/64" or 5/16" thick. Your snap posts will need to be a little longer than the finished thickness of the leather because there must be enough metal to form the attachment when the post is peened down by the snap setter. For 7-8 oz. and 8-9 oz. I have found that a 5/16" post length works well (and this is about the longest post you will find at most suppliers). Posts that are too short simply will not work. Posts that are much tool long can bend easily and fail to peen down properly. If the finished piece is thicker than I am comfortable with at the point where the snap is required, I either use a skiving tool to reduce thickness, or sometimes reduce thickness quickly and easily by striking that area with ball peen hammer (which compresses that point to permit the snap to be installed). Setting snaps with the hand tools can be frustrating, but a little practice usually results in satisfactory results. Snap-setting presses are a considerable expense, but worth the investment when you install a lot of snaps.

Minor correction: Threepersons' original holsters were made by S.D. Myres Saddlery Company. The design was picked up by just about every other holster maker in the country during the 20th Century, and its influence can be seen in many holsters of current manufacture.

I make single-layer belts from 9-10 oz. shoulders, and these work very well for many applications. I also offer these lined with 4-oz, which beefs up the load-bearing capabilities. For the heaviest applications I offer belts made of two 8-oz straps cemented and sewn together, which results in a very strong belt. A good sturdy belt adds considerably to the comfort of carrying a holstered handgun. Belts made of lightweight materials frequently have to be tightened to an uncomfortable degree in an attempt to stabilize the holster.

I haven't looked at Spiegel's, but "bends" are typically used for shoe soles (very heavy-duty stuff), so probably in the 12 to 14-oz. range if not heavier. Very few holster applications require leather heavier than 8 to 9 oz. and most of my production items are made of 8-oz. Check with Kevin at Springfield Leather (see the banner ads on this forum). In addition to stocking Hermann Oak and other quality hides at competitive prices, Kevin can provide cut pieces for hobbyists not wanting to buy a full side, shoulder, etc. You will enjoy working with quality materials much more than any bargain piece you may find, and your finished products will be of higher quality. Single shoulders can also be a good choice for the hobbyist; measuring in at 5 to 7 square feet these will make several holsters with material costs at maybe $5 or $6 per item. There is seldom any real benefit to buying the bargains. Stick with Hermann Oak, Wickett & Craig, and other quality US tanneries and you will be much happier in the long run.

Larry: You may mount the snap on the back of the belt loop. You may also mount it on the back side of the holster, just forward of the belt loop, which allows the strap to rotate forward and down, out of the way when not in use. On the lined holsters I like to mount the snap studs prior to installing the lining. This covers the snap base with lining leather, keeping the metal from contacting the handgun inside the holster.

With two layers of 8-9 oz leather, your belt is approx. 1/4" total thickness. Obviously, your metal clip does not have that much clearance. I have not seen any metal belt clips that would offer sufficient clearance for a belt that thick. You might want to look into the "J-Clips", typically made of Kydex, intended to slide between the trouser material and the belt with a J-shaped hook that secures the the bottom of the belt.

I also dip-dye my work, but do so after forming and drying. I'm using Feibings spirit-based dyes, which I dilute with isopropyl alcohol. The alcohol dries completely in a couple of hours, but I find it best to allow each piece to sit for 24 hours before proceeding to the next step in the finishing process (for me, that involves neatsfoot oil, which noticably darkens most dyes so experimentation is necessary to get the desired results).

Type of glue might also be the issue. Some glues set up with a distinct appearance. For cementing linings I prefer Tanners Bond from Feibings; excellent adhesion and invisible at the edges.

The Threepersons-style holster features a welted seam (a "welt" is an additional thickness of leather sewn between the front and rear holster panels which reinforces seam strength and allows for easier fitting of the holster to the handgun). The second stitch line at the upper portion of the seam is simply meant to reinforce the seam at a stress point (where the handgun is inserted and withdrawn). I found a couple of photos showing the backs of Threepersons-style holsters, and have included the fronts for reference as well. The holster you have shown was made by El Paso Saddlery, and features their unique method of sewing the holster lining (over the mouth of the holster).

Rule of thumb: Vegetable-tanned is rigid and absorbs water easily. Chrome-tanned is soft, limited absorption of water. Brain-tanned is also quite soft, and absorbs water easily, but we see very little of this type.

The Threepersons holster project continues to be popular, and the Christmas season has generated several orders for the original-pattern hand-carved holsters. One customer ordered two matching holsters for his wife and daughter, fitted for their matching S&W J-frame .357 magnum revolvers. The original Threepersons-style was modified to incorporate a steel-reinforced thumb-break retention. The artist who does my carving work did an amazing job in matching the patterns on the two pieces! Considering that this style of carving is done entirely by hand, with each cut and modeling application done individually, the results are a tribute to the creating artist! I can't help but think about all the money I've wasted on jewelry and other nonsense at Christmas! But, I've never had a wife and daughter who carried matching .357 Magnums! Also on this week's schedule were carved Threepersons-style holsters for a 3-inch N-frame S&W with strap retention, a 4-inch L-frame S&W with strap retention, and an open-top original style for the Browning Hi Power pistol. While the majority of my production work is intended for concealed carry applications (never intended to be seen!), I genuinely enjoy making these original-style Threepersons holsters with carving to the original design.

Check Springfield Leather (see the banner ad). They stock Hermann Oak veg-tan sides, and Kevin will cut leather for small orders. You won't find better leather to work with, or nicer people to deal with.

Exceptionally nice workmanship. It appears that your inner panel is assembled smooth-side in? I like the effect of the dye work.

Very nice design and execution. Stitching is as good as I have seen anywhere. I use a lot of #6-32 machine screws and #6 X 1/4" T-nuts, buying these by the hundreds. This size works well with standard Dot-snaps for IWB and OWB belt loop fasteners. If you need a few for this project, or experimentation, send me a PM with your mailing address and I will oblige.

I think it was George S. Patton who said that the English and the Americans were one people, separated by a common language! Good post. Excellent content. Thanks.

Which models to buy will depend upon your market; which ones are you getting orders for? Those are the models you will need to have. As previously discussed, Ring's Blue Guns are marketed by dozens of dealers. However, none of those (to my knowledge) maintains any significant inventory; they simply take orders and forward to Ring's for production. Ring's will also take orders from the general public, so placing your order through a dealer actually adds to the waiting time in many cases (dealer orders from Ring's, Ring's ships to dealer, dealer ships to you). The only advantage to ordering through any of the dealers is that some sell at less than suggested retail price (Ring's charges retail on all orders, unless you are willing to place a mega-bucks order and become a stocking dealer). Obtaining the dummy guns we need, when we need them, is an ongoing challenge. I now have about 4 dozen dummies, plus another couple of dozen real handguns, and I still receive requests for holsters to fit other handguns. If I think that the demand for a model will be significant, I will buy the dummy. I also have a pretty good niche market supplying holsters for out-of-production handguns. For the most part, dummies are not available for most of those, so I just purchase a used handgun (the first half-dozen orders pay for the cost, and the cost is a tax-deductible business expense). Thirty years ago, when there were 3 or 4 manufacturers, each making 3 or 4 models, life was relatively easy. Today there are dozens of manufacturers, each making a dozen or more models with dozens of variations in each product line. Add in the periperals (tactical lights, laser sights, etc) and the variety is staggering. A maker who tries to stock one of each could spend dozens of hours every week just keeping up to date on the newest gadgets and model variations. This question comes up several times per year. Perhaps the moderators would consider adding a "sticky" on this subject.

Saddle skirting is about as heavy as cowhide gets. It would be very difficult to use for holster work.

Thank you for your input. I will pay special attention to the testers' comments on these points.

For IWB carry I recommend a natural, undyed, finish. Even the best dyes will transfer somewhat when enough temperature and moisture are applied for an extended time (think hot days and perspiration, and a clean white dress shirt). Very light application of neatsfoot oil can provide lasting protection and a degree of flexibility to resist cracking. Followed by a thorough saturation coating of acrylic sealant, you will have a product that will stand up to years of use. Please do not store your handgun in a leather holster for an extended period. All leather articles will attract and retain moisture to some degree. Get into the habit of removing the handgun after each day's use, wipe it down with an oily rag or silicone-treated cloth. The holster should be left in an area with good air-flow to permit any residual moisture to evaporate away. Just a little advice from a guy who has carried a sidearm almost every day since 1968, and has made a few thousand holsters. Best regards.

Thanks, Mike. It probably sounds like I am congratulating myself when I say it, but I believe that this is a considerable improvement over the traditional two-panel pancake style. Once I have the reviews in hand I intend to make any adjustments called for to the design and offer this as an option to my customers. Best regards.

In recent posts I have described an adaptation of the welted seam to the Avenger style, and also to the pancake-style for semi-auto handguns. I have been pleased with the results, and I am pursuing a project of an enhanced pancake-style holster for production. This is a report on this application for revolvers. Having made pancake-style holsters for many years, I believe that this might be the first truly significant improvement of that basic design. With that said, I also believe that this project involves nothing more than applying existing techniques to existing designs, and it is very likely that this technique has been done by others before me, so I am happy to share it with others. I have little concern that larger holster-makers will adapt this approach, as it involves considerably more work and a higher level of attention to detail in production. Photos attached show the details of construction, with the welts cut and installed on the fore-and-aft seams of a pancake-style holster. The welts provide a number of enhancements: 1. The traditional pancake-style, made of two panels, utilizes belt slots. Those slots can create a significant lump under the belt, and there is a lump formed at the transition from the belt to the outer holster panel. The welted seam permits a tunnel-style belt channel fore-and-aft, with only one layer of leather beneath the belt. Also, the outer holster panel provides a smoother transition over which the clothing can glide with less obstruction. The finished holster lies significantly flatter over the belt. 2. The welt (8-9 oz. leather) provides approx. 1/8" clearance between inner and outer holster panels. This additional clearance permits the stitch-lines to be moved more closely into the outline of the handgun, resulting in a very tightly-fitted result. Also, the welted seam along the front of the holster provides a natural sight-channel, permitting the front sight to enter and leave the holster with little or no contact with the holster. This can be expected to reduce holster wear to the finish of the front sight, and also prevent shreds of leather stuck to the front sight (that can interfere with a proper sight-picture when aiming the weapon). These pictures show the prototype of this model for a revolver (one for a semi-auto pistol is already in use for evaluation purposes). In addition to fitting the holster pocket to the revolver, the holster is pre-formed to the contour of the hip, and the belt channels are pre-formed to the belt width intended. These features can significantly improve comfort, as well as reducing the time needed to break-in the new holster. This prototype is on its way to California now, where a very experienced revolver user will be evaluating the design for the next several weeks. I look forward to hearing his comments and critique.