Are Basket-Weave Stampers Negligent!?!

[RVM45]

 

Friends,

 

I was watching some holster makers on “U” Tube & I noticed something that amazed & displeased me.

 

The culprit was basket-weave stamping a holster…

 

Now truth be told, I have seldom seen a stamped pattern that is as attractive to my eye as smooth highly polished leather, though some very well-done carving IS an improvement to bare leather…

 

BUT some folks like stamped leather; it is reputed to stiffen the leather & make small scuffs & scars less noticeable & it certainly occupies the stamper & keeps him out of worse mischief… 

 

But what to my wondering bloodshot eyes should appear—the stamper ONLY stamped the front side of the holster—the one that would show— & left the side that would face the holster-wearer smooth.

 

{When I was telling my sister about his, she thought that I meant that the culprit should stamp the INSIDE of the holster! No!  NO!!! The BACKSIDE—not the INSIDE!}

 

To me, this seems sloven & unworkmanlike. It is like cabinetmakers who make a beautiful dresser; chest of drawers or armoire, using all sorts of expensive and exotic woods in the process— & then on the backside or the bottom—where it won’t show, they use a common sheet of plywood or fiberboard.

 

Like Krenov said about cabinetmaking—sooner or later, someone will turn it around to look at the back (or bottom) side & the fact that someone took the time to do it RIGHT—even where it doesn’t show—will bring a smile to their lips— & increase their satisfaction of owning it.

 

Since I was now on the alert—ALL of the “U” Tube holster makers seem to use this lazy man’s approach.

 

If I was contracting for a stamped holster—I would very much appreciate the maker telling me:

 

“You realize that this is only a half-vast stamping. IF you want it fully stamped over all 180-degrees—that will be an extra $35!”

 

What do y’all think?

 

Thanks.

 

 

…..RVM45

 

[Littlef]

I see no purpose to stamp, carved or otherwise decorate the backside of a holster.  When I draw out the main panel, I wrap it around the front edge, and stop at a point just where is goes out of sight.  If that makes me lazy, so be it.  I can live with that.

[chuck123wapati]

55 minutes ago, RVM45 said:

 

Friends,

 

I was watching some holster makers on “U” Tube & I noticed something that amazed & displeased me.

 

The culprit was basket-weave stamping a holster…

 

Now truth be told, I have seldom seen a stamped pattern that is as attractive to my eye as smooth highly polished leather, though some very well-done carving IS an improvement to bare leather…

 

BUT some folks like stamped leather; it is reputed to stiffen the leather & make small scuffs & scars less noticeable & it certainly occupies the stamper & keeps him out of worse mischief… 

 

But what to my wondering bloodshot eyes should appear—the stamper ONLY stamped the front side of the holster—the one that would show— & left the side that would face the holster-wearer smooth.

 

{When I was telling my sister about his, she thought that I meant that the culprit should stamp the INSIDE of the holster! No!  NO!!! The BACKSIDE—not the INSIDE!}

 

To me, this seems sloven & unworkmanlike. It is like cabinetmakers who make a beautiful dresser; chest of drawers or armoire, using all sorts of expensive and exotic woods in the process— & then on the backside or the bottom—where it won’t show, they use a common sheet of plywood or fiberboard.

 

Like Krenov said about cabinetmaking—sooner or later, someone will turn it around to look at the back (or bottom) side & the fact that someone took the time to do it RIGHT—even where it doesn’t show—will bring a smile to their lips— & increase their satisfaction of owning it.

 

Since I was now on the alert—ALL of the “U” Tube holster makers seem to use this lazy man’s approach.

 

If I was contracting for a stamped holster—I would very much appreciate the maker telling me:

 

“You realize that this is only a half-vast stamping. IF you want it fully stamped over all 180-degrees—that will be an extra $35!”

 

What do y’all think?

 

Thanks.

 

 

…..RVM45

 

i think a guy can stamp it the way he wants to and doesn't have to feel bad about any part of it. Personally I like a smooth leather against my body however and wouldn't want one stamped on the back. But if the customer would want it I would make it.

[Doc Reaper]

The "half vasted" method also helps save the material between the holster and the skin from early wear, back in the day good trousers (like today) ain't cheap. Seeing as the normal holster hangs below the belt where the thigh moves back and forth as you walk, the leather is a bit harder and acts as an abrasive that will make quick work of a pair of jeans. Smooth leather is better. Now if the holster is at the belt and there is no friction then it's up to the maker. After a few dozen holsters  you learn that full wrap around tooling is good on smaller higher hanging holsters is cool. The lower hanging high friction is meant to be smoother 

[Chakotay]

4 hours ago, Littlef said:

I see no purpose to stamp, carved or otherwise decorate the backside of a holster.  When I draw out the main panel, I wrap it around the front edge, and stop at a point just where is goes out of sight.  If that makes me lazy, so be it.  I can live with that.

This. Though I often stamp the entire front and back as well ... just depends.  Especially if the holster is a "Mexican-loop" style with a skirt (one I make frequently), there's really no reason to stamp the back side. It's literally never going to be seen.

[RVM45]

6 hours ago, Doc Reaper said:

The "half vasted" method also helps save the material between the holster and the skin from early wear, back in the day good trousers (like today) ain't cheap. Seeing as the normal holster hangs below the belt where the thigh moves back and forth as you walk, the leather is a bit harder and acts as an abrasive that will make quick work of a pair of jeans. Smooth leather is better. Now if the holster is at the belt and there is no friction then it's up to the maker. After a few dozen holsters  you learn that full wrap around tooling is good on smaller higher hanging holsters is cool. The lower hanging high friction is meant to be smoother 

That is something that I had truly never considered. 

I also get incensed at knife makers who don’t polish the part of the hilt that will be hidden by the handle scales...

I also groove on revolvers that have the inside surfaces jeweled—supposed to hold lubricant better—but it just looks deluxe when you reduce your revolver to possession—something that should be done VERY SPARINGLY.

When I was going through Small Arms Repair School at APG I encountered all sorts of weapons that had never been fired yet were a total ruin from being reduced to possession & then reassembled hundreds of times by the students.

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by RVM45
typo

[fredk]

Caveat, I don't make gun holsters, but I do study them

Every tut I've read from holster makers from long ago up to recent times mostly, almost always, instruct just to take the design just around the fold bend by an inch or two

and, afair, a lot of the original holsters examined in 'Packing Iron' are of the same, with the design either ending before the fold bend, on the fold, or just an inch or two past it on the rear 

I think, and its only my opinion, ultimately, if you want to do the stamping do it, if you want to reproduce an old real example do it as it was done. Its not lazy to not do it

When I made copies of medieval or viking knife sheaths, which are usually one piece folded around and sewn, I've always done the design all the way around,  just as the original was done

 

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, RVM45 said:

That is something that I had truly never considered. 

I also get incensed at knife makers who don’t polish the part of the hilt that will be hidden by the handle scales...

I also groove on revolvers that have the inside surfaces jeweled—supposed to hold lubricant better—but it just looks deluxe when you reduce your revolver to possession—something that should be done VERY SPARINGLY.

When I was going through Small Arms Repair School at APG I encountered all sorts of weapons that had never been fired yet were a total ruin from being reduced to possession & then reassembled hundreds of times by the students.

 

Interesting I've never cared much what other folks do or how they choose to  create or finish their work  as long as it doesn't effect me but I have to ask.

Hilt as defined is usually the term for the parts of a complete handle assembly do you mean you take off the scales of your knives to see if the tang is polished, you must get really disappointed I've never seen one polished or even heard of it being done? I mean if you understand why jeweling holds oil then why don't you understand why a rough or sanded tang holds glue better?

 

[dikman]

When I carved my Slim Jim holster I carved it all the way around because it doesn't have a skirt so it's all visible. If it had a skirt I wouldn't have bothered because I don't know anyone who removes a skirt to look at the rear of a holster once it's finished and is being used (I know I don't).

[RVM45]

On 9/23/2023 at 9:27 AM, chuck123wapati said:

Interesting I've never cared much what other folks do or how they choose to  create or finish their work  as long as it doesn't effect me but I have to ask.

Hilt as defined is usually the term for the parts of a complete handle assembly do you mean you take off the scales of your knives to see if the tang is polished, you must get really disappointed I've never seen one polished or even heard of it being done? I mean if you understand why jeweling holds oil then why don't you understand why a rough or sanded tang holds glue better?

 

Nah. I meant when I watch Knife-Makers on “U” Tube & they don’t polish all of the metal—just the part that will be exposed.

When I was in “Jig-Repair”—and it turns out that all of our “JIGS” were technically welding “FIXTURES,” NOT “Jigs"—But anyway, the Boss—who trained me—taught me to simply knock off any visible scale with the Dynafile when maintaining the “Jigs."

However, once I went back on second-shift & was on my own—I insisted on polishing each “Jig” to a high state of shine with the Dynafile..

{The “Jigs” were steel & copper. I was mostly polishing copper.}

Cleaning “Jigs” was scut-work, so the First-Shift Boss invariably left all the cleaning to me.

{In a factory setting, never trust a “Daywalker”—someone who works Dayshift by preference…}

Anyway, I was quite anxious to work as fast as possible, so as to take unscheduled breaks...

Once, I was laid-off for 5-weeks & the Boss did all the cleaning/polishing.

I found, that once I was back, that I had to work twice as hard to clean the “Jigs” until I got them back into a High State of Polish.

Seems that the globs of molten steel would only stick lightly to a highly polished surface & it was east to knock them off with a light application of the Dynafile. However, IF the surface was crappy & rough, the slag would stick harder & it was much harder to clean.

I polished the copper surfaces solely due to being OCD—BUT unless there is some strong contraindication there is generally a REASON OCD kicks in.

I mean, ORDINARILY, I am quite Sloven & Lazy—UNTIL it SEEMS TO MATTER.

 

……RVM45

7

[tsunkasapa]

I think you worry too much about things that simply don't matter.

[JWheeler331]

I don't really agree with the OP here. I basketweave several holsters and there really is no reason to do that to the back of the holster. That's a lot of extra work for no apparent reason. Now, should someone request that it can certainly be done but I would not say its unworkmanlike to not stamp or care the back of the holster body. 

Here is my latest one that I did for myself that is what you appear to have a problem with. I do not see a problem with it but like anything, you are free to have a different opinion. 

Ruger Blackhawk Bisley Holster - Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes - Leatherworker.net

 

Also, sometimes the contrasting difference between stamped and not stamped is a desired look. 

Edited September 25, 2023 by JWheeler331

[YinTx]

On 9/23/2023 at 12:13 AM, RVM45 said:

I also get incensed at knife makers who don’t polish the part of the hilt that will be hidden by the handle scales...

 

Even the most prized Japanese swords forged by the greatest masters do not polish the Nakago.  For me it is wasted energy to be upset at that.

[Rossr]

On 9/23/2023 at 1:13 AM, RVM45 said:

That is something that I had truly never considered. 

I also get incensed at knife makers who don’t polish the part of the hilt that will be hidden by the handle scales...

I also groove on revolvers that have the inside surfaces jeweled—supposed to hold lubricant better—but it just looks deluxe when you reduce your revolver to possession—something that should be done VERY SPARINGLY.

When I was going through Small Arms Repair School at APG I encountered all sorts of weapons that had never been fired yet were a total ruin from being reduced to possession & then reassembled hundreds of times by the students.

 

Polishing the part where the scales go also doesn't help hold the scales.  Epoxy needs a roughed surface to help hold. Corby bolts or peened pins also help but imo having made knifes behind the scales I'll scuff with 60 grit sand paper. Just my thought

 

Ross

[RVM45]

Friends,

Imagine driving down the road.

The road ends ends 30-yards ahead. There is no turn off to the Right. You HAVE to go Left.

Do you turn on your Left Turn Signal!?!

To my mind, IF you agree to drive BY THE RULES—as opposed to only paying  Pragmatic Attention to Rules made by others...

But if you BELIEVE in the RULES, then this is an important test of your commitment to THE RULES.

Do you follow THE RULES, even when there is NO PRACTICAL REASON TO?

Those dead ends with only one possible turn are the times where using your turn signal MATTERS MOST.

I used to always make sure to insert all of my coins in vending machines Heads Up. Someone once told me that it didn’t matter.

OF COURSE IT DOESN’T MATTER. Would I go to all this trouble if it actually mattered!!?!!

I mean, IF some Statistical Scientific Study showed that putting the coins in Heads-Up made me 3% lss likely to get sewed out of my Coke money, I’d say, “Skew it!” and stick them in any which way.

Ain’t worth bothering with, for 3%...

 

…..RVM45

[Handstitched]

On 9/23/2023 at 3:21 AM, Littlef said:

I see no purpose to stamp, carved or otherwise decorate the backside of a holster. 

Same here. All the holsters I have made, I have never stamped or carved  the back. Tooling & carving is there to be seen, shown off , not hidden  .  Even Al Stohlmans holsters are only tooled on the front.  But I am happy to do it if requested. 

HS

[fredk]

When I was a cadet stating out in the RAF a very famous WW2 RAF pilot told me;

'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't do this or that. That's nonsense. Boy, learn the rules and obey them, then later you will know which rules you can ignore'

[chuck123wapati]

16 hours ago, RVM45 said:

Friends,

Imagine driving down the road.

The road ends ends 30-yards ahead. There is no turn off to the Right. You HAVE to go Left.

Do you turn on your Left Turn Signal!?!

To my mind, IF you agree to drive BY THE RULES—as opposed to only paying  Pragmatic Attention to Rules made by others...

But if you BELIEVE in the RULES, then this is an important test of your commitment to THE RULES.

Do you follow THE RULES, even when there is NO PRACTICAL REASON TO?

Those dead ends with only one possible turn are the times where using your turn signal MATTERS MOST.

I used to always make sure to insert all of my coins in vending machines Heads Up. Someone once told me that it didn’t matter.

OF COURSE IT DOESN’T MATTER. Would I go to all this trouble if it actually mattered!!?!!

I mean, IF some Statistical Scientific Study showed that putting the coins in Heads-Up made me 3% lss likely to get sewed out of my Coke money, I’d say, “Skew it!” and stick them in any which way.

Ain’t worth bothering with, for 3%...

 

…..RVM45

if its an intersection I will turn on my signal ( that is the rule) if the sign says left turn only then no or if the road just turns left no.. , rules aren't intentionally made to cloud the issue but sometimes people make them for no good reason.

[Handstitched]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

'Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you can't do this or that. That's nonsense. Boy, learn the rules and obey them, then later you will know which rules you can ignore'

I like that  

" I reject reality and substitute it with my own"   Mythbusters , I think

HS 

[Wepster]

First, I am very new to leather work, but I see no need to finish something that is unseen, or in the case of a knife tang, counterproductive (possibly detrimental, could cause failure of the glued on scales due to the glue not bonding to the polished metal). Christopher Schwarz noted woodworker, author and teacher sees no point in obsessing over unseen parts of furniture.

2nd, I asked my cousin, retired New York State Trooper, currently a captain in a local PD (also their training officer and Glock armorer, so he is not an uniformed man), the question of using a signal blinker in a lane designated as turn only. He had asked many senior NYSP over the years, never got a consistant answer. His take and mine are you are required to signal your turn. You have signaled your turn, you are in a lane that requires you to turn, the lane signs and marking have signaled your intent. The warning of your intened action has been conveyed to all those around you. 

[Bert03241]

and I can't tell you how many times I've seen their left signal on and they turn rt arrrrrrgggggg

[Dwight]

10 hours ago, Bert03241 said:

and I can't tell you how many times I've seen their left signal on and they turn rt arrrrrrgggggg

OR . . . get in the designated "right turn only" lane . . . and use it so they can gun their engine and pull out ahead of you . . . cutting you off . . . 

In a town nearby . . . they have that mess up dead in front of city hall  . . . and if you are in the thru lane  . . . just be careful.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Bert03241]

yup seen that many times toBut I find a lot of the time they pull up to do that but are sleeping at the switch. Light turns green I'm gone their still sitting there

Edited October 25, 2023 by Bert03241

[Stetson912]

My 2 cents, if it's a molded holster, the only side that could be molded and retain the front stamping would be the back. Leaving it plain would keep the best anesthetics after molding. If it's not to be molded, it could be stamped all around. Personally, if it's an owb not molded or a western style holster, I would probably stamp all of it, otherwise I'd have to rely on molding the back panel for retention and that would destroy any adornment in the end

[Haraldsson]

I'm thinking RVM45 is seeing who will take the bait... being overly dramatic due to of boredom. 

I bet he'll spend time in traffic, now, giggling at the thought of turn signals...