Wickett/Craig

[bermudahwin]

37 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

over here we call those mexican restaurants

The historic case example from the 50's and 60's, for anti-money laundering was 'insert nationality here' restautant actually owned by 'insert crime organisation here' being observed as having 10 to 15 'cash' covers a day but banking thousands and thousands of dollars, which was then paid to owners as dividends etc....

I am not silly enough to enter a sydicate that rhymes with raffia.

Fredk's comment was found to be true, when I was working for a major international electronic payments firm, as worldwide compliance manager, last year, but not as often as the 'oddly mispriced' scenario. We removed service from many in the far east, and reported to home and european tax authorities, one storefront alone was churning $1million per annum, and they had 20 mirrored storefonts, it beggars belief. When we queried it, it was all innocence and 'what? little me?'

H

[TheNorthldahokid]

Have any of you ever ordered from Weaver Leather Craft? I came across them the other day and was just wondering. They also have good videos, google Weaver Leather Craft youtube. 

[JLSleather]

I ordered leather from Weaver ONCE.  I will not do it again.

I did not return it, didn't even contact them to complain about it.  What I got was advertised as Herman Oak's better grade, but the grain side was not good, and the flesh side was far worse.  There was clearly a splitter problem -- the entire back side looked like that washboard you find on the highway when you're coming up on a stop.

Now, some are going to say "well, how can they fix the problem if you don't let them know?".  This - clearly - is ridiculous.  They CLAIM to know leather.  So one of these things is happening:

1. They really DON'T know leather, and had no idea what they were sending me was below acceptable. OR
2. They really DO know leather, but thought I DON'T know the difference.  Sadly, this has become widespread... send out the dregs and if the customer doesn't complain you "got away with it". OR
3. They really DO know leather, and they didn't care if I knew the difference or not.  Send it out, and if he sends it back we'll send a different piece.  If he's out a week or two, not our problem. OR
4. They really DO know leather, but can't be bothered to either check what they are sending out, or train their help to check it.

Regardless of the reason, I do not object to PAYING premium price as long as I'm GETTING premium stuff.  Fortunately, I only ordered a couple of sides, kind of test the water to see what they stock.  Now that I know, I avoid them.

NOTE: What I got could have easily been SPLIT AGAIN once the splitter was adjusted, they could have simply sold it as a lighter weight.  They'd only be out the time to split it.  But they didn't.

Edited March 24, 2019 by JLSleather

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

For what it's worth, I ordered 6 sides of chocolate skirting from Hermann last fall, supposed to be "A"s, had a heck of a time getting a saddle seat out of even one.  I think it's an industry wide problem.  The vast majority of the hides generated in this country go out of this country and are tanned for the upholstery industry.  They get their pick of hides, the best hides, because they need large, clean blemish free hides for upholstery leather.  Our only two veg tan tanneries left in this country more or less get the leftovers.  Or so I'm told.  I haven't bought from Wickett in quite awhile.  I was getting too much leather that I couldn't use.  I've gotten some really mushy garbage from them, and it just will not work for equine equipment.  Also, something in their process has  changed.  Twenty-five years ago, I loved their harness leather.  It had a soft hand, which some people don't care for, but it wasn't mush, and it had a nice somewhat waxy feel.  The last few years, their harness leather has been different, but they claim nothing has changed.  If I didn't still have a few random pieces of their old leather, I'd wonder if it was my imagination.  Last fall I bought 3 brand new sides at an auction, still wrapped in paper, and in the original box.  I had no idea what I was buying, except it was black harness.  I got it home and opened it up and the original invoice from Wickett and Craig was in the box.  It was dated 2004.  And THAT leather was a lot closer to the leather I remember cutting years ago.  The fact that they won't admit they changed something pisses me off as much as anything.  Their skirting has become a nightmare to carve.  Afrer about 10" with a swivel knife, it drags so bad it takes forever to get anything done because I'm constantly having to stop and strop my knife.  Same knife, Hermann Oak, carves like butter.  It really is a darn shame, because if Wickett quits tanning leather, then there's only ONE tannery left in this country, and that would be very bad for our trade indeed.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Big Sioux Saddlery

[JLSleather]

7 hours ago, Big Sioux Saddlery said:

The fact that they won't admit they changed something pisses me off as much as anything. 

Such is the process these days. Don't fix the problem... just market to "new guys" who don't know the difference.  Get 'em early, convince them that the poop they're chewing is good for you   

Of course, it's a matter of time. You use a "name" to sell your poop, pretty soon you've got poop on the name.

 

[matthewb137]

4 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Such is the process these days. Don't fix the problem... just market to "new guys" who don't know the difference.  Get 'em early, convince them that the poop they're chewing is good for you   

Of course, it's a matter of time. You use a "name" to sell your poop, pretty soon you've got poop on the name.

 

I actually travel to W/C quite often to pick out my sides since they’re only a couple hours away. And I will say that the quality isn’t as great as it used to be. They’re top shelf sides used to be spotless. But as I was talking to my salesperson, I noticed a lot of new faces working behind the scenes. A lot of then people with 20, 30, 40 years of experience are retiring. Now you have a bunch of kids my age (young 20s) that are doing the job but just don’t care. It may be a rough next couple of years. 

[YinTx]

On 3/25/2019 at 11:07 AM, matthewb137 said:

I noticed a lot of new faces working behind the scenes.

If I recall, I read an article indicating they had a change of guard in the C Suite as well...  I still haven't received my order yet, we'll see what comes in the mail.  Ya'll have me worried.

YinTx

[nrk]

On 3/28/2019 at 7:53 AM, YinTx said:

If I recall, I read an article indicating they had a change of guard in the C Suite as well...  I still haven't received my order yet, we'll see what comes in the mail.  Ya'll have me worried.

YinTx

so what did you get?

ps.

im gonna receive next purchase of tooling 'standard' grade in maybe two weeks. remind me to share

[JLSleather]

I forgot about this topic until it popped up.  This is good -- I meant to copy part of it!

Still, I will say that I ordered W/C leathers recently, and have been much more satisfied.  A couple weeks ago I found myself needing quite a bit of thinner leather, so I just ordered ONE side of that weight.  Upon inspection, I regret only ordering one -- this is the nicest leather I've seen in a WHILE (should have bought 10).

[JLSleather]

On 3/14/2019 at 7:48 AM, chrisash said:

You ordered some leather, but did not like what came, they offered you the choice of keeping it or returning it, you chose not to return it for your own reasons but then slagged the company off for being crap.

Its hard for any company to react different, if you don't return it for them to understand the problem

How do they not understand the problem?  "A" grade is determined by the number of marks per sq foot (or actually, the LACK of marks per foot).  I don't object to you selling various grades, just send me the grade I paid for.

Some of those best known around here certainly know what I'm referring to.  You get somebody to round up all the new & inexperienced for you - all in one place.  Then you market / ad / sell to that crowd.  Get a bunch of people who don't know any better talking about your product...  occasionally, somebody who knows the difference will complain, but you send that one in 50 a different piece and a pretty story about how you don't know how that happened (hint: it happened because that refuse was on your shelf).

I do sometimes try to inform those who care to know.  But I suspect much of it is like water off a duck ....

[chrisash]

Boy you sure are a unhappy person, you seem to moan about the whole world and even manage to bring up a post of 7 months ago with a ramble, no wonder your post count is so large

[chuck123wapati]

I agree with you wholeheartedly ! It seems there is no quality any more in any products, I find the video posted here  last week about W&C not being able to sell their products kind of ironic. We don't have people staying in jobs forever anymore and any Administration or quality control nowadays goes to an college grad with a sheepskin in Business administration with little or no real experience in whatever trade so they in essence know squat about leather or whatever the product is. But they can sure tell you how good it is and build some BS selling propaganda for it.  Not that a degree isn't a good thing so those out there with one , me included, don't beat me up if I offended, but it doesn't mean they know everything or even anything really. You all know that education in America is now about 17th place in the world down from #1 20 years ago, I guess I'm ranting a bit also but todays world has no real work ethic, pride of building a career, or just plain working hard for a living for the majority of our new modern society.

 So all I can say friend is maybe there is a way to write off your losses, donate to the scouts or some charity or maybe your accountant can find a way to write off the loss. It sure does suck though to see this happening, I have a hide, not much left, of W&C leather that I bought probably 20 year ago and its so nice I have been saving it and use it only on my best stuff because I hate to cut up lol.

 So now we know why Tandy cant get good hides also as well as any  business that buys from the tanneries.  Another big thing that is driving this problem is the BIG companies buy out the small companies, or contract with, that produce the needed materials for their products then charge more to the small business and public market. We see that daily in the grocery store fresh produce costs more than processed, costs more for the ingredients to make a cookie than you can buy one at the local crap food place. 

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, chrisash said:

Boy you sure are a unhappy person, you seem to moan about the whole world and even manage to bring up a post of 7 months ago with a ramble, no wonder your post count is so large

In America, 3/14 was NINE months ago.  If you get conscious - even temporarily - you'll see that somebody ELSE 'revived' the topic and I added that W/C HAD sent me some very nice leather recently.

Not sure why you'd think I'm not happy, though.  There IS quality to be had (not just in leather). Which is why it makes it reprehensible and unnecessary to attempt to sell me that which is not WHAT YOU SAID.

Around here, we discuss LEATHER, or so I thought when I noticed this site.  I know not all "members" really care about that.

[blue62]

3 hours ago, JLSleather said:

In America, 3/14 was NINE months ago.  If you get conscious - even temporarily - you'll see that somebody ELSE 'revived' the topic and I added that W/C HAD sent me some very nice leather recently.

Not sure why you'd think I'm not happy, though.  There IS quality to be had (not just in leather). Which is why it makes it reprehensible and unnecessary to attempt to sell me that which is not WHAT YOU SAID.

Around here, we discuss LEATHER, or so I thought when I noticed this site.  I know not all "members" really care about that.

Nope, not anymore, it's all about YouTube and building a brand, then the quality of the product doesn't matter.

[JLSleather]

28 minutes ago, blue62 said:

Nope, not anymore, it's all about YouTube and building a brand, then the quality of the product doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter TO WHO?    I do leather 'stuff'.  When I find a good deal, I'm happy to refer the person who gave me the deal.  When I find a not so good deal, I generally run my mouth about that too    If the next guy wants to buy refuse because it's "popular" with others, have at it.  IF a BUNCH of dummies want to throw their money away, no matter to me.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before ... SIX MILLION "pet rocks" got sold back when.  Then there were a JILLION "imitations", and then after a few years they were REreleased as "the ORIGINAL pet rock"  and a bunch of people bought MORE.  I had a couple friends - just kids back then really - I asked why they bought that idiotic crap.  Well, cuz "everybody else did"... Okay, your money - whatever.  But don't say I didn't tell you.

But I like to make my own choices, and quality matters to me.

[Smartee]

Unfortunately this is happening everywhere.  No one cares anymore (well - some people do - but not so many of the youngsters now a days) It's getting harder and harder to find good, reliable help and/or to get good reliable tools, products, etc.  The good thing is - those that are good are busy as can be for the people that prefer quality.  Unfortunately - again - with all of the "next day" this and that everyone believes - they expect it really can be done and before the holidays!  Instant gratification.    What's the saying about pick two? Quality, service or price?

[blue62]

It dies to me as well, I understand the fustration with the wholesalers, seems like if your not ordering 20 sides a month you get the stuff nobody else wants,

I was at the Hermann oak tannery  a couple months ago and had a chance to look at the piles of leather in the finishing room, decided I really liked the old world harness sides, so when I got home I ordered some from a dealer in Ohio and specified I needed nice hides, what was received was nothing of the sort, mushy and full of holes and butcher cuts, worst part is a call gets the" send it back and we'll send out another one", been there done that, got the same stuff.

It's just sad that nobody can step up and make sure that the orders are fulfilled with a quality hide.

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

53 minutes ago, blue62 said:

It dies to me as well, I understand the fustration with the wholesalers, seems like if your not ordering 20 sides a month you get the stuff nobody else wants,

I was at the Hermann oak tannery  a couple months ago and had a chance to look at the piles of leather in the finishing room, decided I really liked the old world harness sides, so when I got home I ordered some from a dealer in Ohio and specified I needed nice hides, what was received was nothing of the sort, mushy and full of holes and butcher cuts, worst part is a call gets the" send it back and we'll send out another one", been there done that, got the same stuff.

It's just sad that nobody can step up and make sure that the orders are fulfilled with a quality hide.

I've got a hint when dealing with that supplier (I THINK I know who it is).  Nowadays  I always ask "how many sides of such and such do you have on hand?"  If they say "Three", ask when their next order is coming in and if at all possible, wait to order until after it arrives.  Most people are.going to ask them to send their best.  This company buys tannery run.  When they get down to the bottom of the pile, the "bests" are gone.  You are getting C grade or worse.  I'd rather pay the same price and get an A grade!  I probably shouldn't have given up my little secret.. I have gotten some really nice leather from that company, at times better than I've gotten directly from Hermann.

[JLSleather]

7 minutes ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

When they get down to the bottom of the pile, the "bests" are gone.  You are getting C grade or worse.  I'd rather pay the same price and get an A grade!

The truly PATHETIC thing about that.. is they all seem perfectly willing to send you that C or worse, but still bill you for the A you requested.  Now, I wouldnt' fault a fella if he was out of the top shelf leather, and was to call and say "i got a C" if you're interested.  But they generally don't.

Some AROUND HERE are of course the worst offenders I think.  I mean, think about it.. where else do you have all the NEWBYS and INEXPERIENCED all lined up for you in one spot?@!   LIke fish in a barrel... git a couple of em convinced that you're the guy to see (since they don't know any better).  Personally should have cut one "retailer" off a long time ago - when i got the first "toe in teh water" side.  Pathetic.  Told em, though.. I aint returning it... since I been needing something new to put by the back door so folks could wipe their feet. 

[blue62]

11 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

. I aint returning it... since I been needing something new to put by the back door so folks could wipe their feet. 

I think I need more doors!

 

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, JLSleather said:

 

Some AROUND HERE are of course the worst offenders I think.  I mean, think about it.. where else do you have all the NEWBYS and INEXPERIENCED all lined up for you in one spot?@!   LIke fish in a barrel... git a couple of em convinced that you're the guy to see (since they don't know any better).  

I don't think anyone here is a willful offender any more than you are don't forget you are the one who ordered 1000 bucks worth of that bad leather and kept it( they won, to them you are just one of the fish in line and they care not your experience level) . We are all in this together friend so please quit blaming everyone else it doesn't help anything but create animosity, all we can do as a group of like minded consumers is stick together learn from each other and call these companies out when needed to realign their thinking. I will surely help with that any time I don't have a problem pissing people off I spent years as a manager buying product from large companies and dealing with small people trying to screw me, I do have a problem with quality products and am not afraid to say it, you get your message to the right person and it will change.  I don't need the stress and waste of time and money of wondering if I get good product over the phone or internet from a company that says they sell the best.

[JLSleather]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

I don't think anyone here is a willful offender any more than you are

I don't think we're in the same conversation.

[chuck123wapati]

6 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

I don't think we're in the same conversation.

I quoted your comment maybe I didn't understand what you were saying were you calling the companies offenders or the newbys? If your reference was about companies being the offenders then I apologize for the mistake and agree with your comment whole heartedly. Sucks to buy something and get nothing!

[JLSleather]

22 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

maybe I didn't understand what you were saying were you calling the companies offenders

Yeah, I mean "retailers" or "suppliers" or whatever you call em.  I wouldn't "fault" a new guy for not knowing what he doesn't yet know.  And Im not even talking about the boys n girls at Wickett-Craig at this point.

A "leather supplier" or "retailer" or "distributor".. whatever term they're using.. who takes money for an "A" grade hide and sends something LESS either DOESN"T KNOW his business, or is hoping YOU WON"T KNOW the difference. [Yes, I know some will say it could be the fault of some new guy in the shipping department, but that is PART OF the retailer's business.  You can't send the wrong item, then say it's not my fault it's some guy who works for me].

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by JLSleather