Chinese Imported Sewing Machines

[Matt S]

43 minutes ago, Garyak said:

They are completely different. I have both a cobra and China patcher. My patcher sews with the best out there. It excels in the fact that it can sew 207 on both ends, unlike the rest of the patchers (except Claes/pfaff) that top out at 138. A sewing machine is nothing but a tool. It’s only going to do what the operator makes it do. It’s only going to do what it was designed to do, and the China patcher does exactly what it was designed to do. Lots of folks are producing top notch leather work with it, ive never had a complaint. 4-3/4 stars when used as intended, without physical changes to the rig. Singer 29-1 thru the latest clone (cobra,techsew,Consew,etc) are all singer 29s. The China patchers next of kin is the Bradbury.two completely different set ups. 

And yet the one I had wouldn't pass TKT20/V138 in the needle with TKT40/V69 in the bobbin, which in the very least highlights the poor consistency and QC in these things. How long a seam do you get with those aspirin-sized bobbins in 207? What needles are you using? And... who are these "lots of folks producing top notch leather work" with a Chinese patcher?

25 minutes ago, Garyak said:

China leather patcher, enduro pro 220v ran 110v.  207 cobra thread- UY 180-200 22,23. 

 

If you're happy with those seams, more power to your elbow my friend. They aren't what I'm looking for. Are you pre-punching your stitch holes before sewing?

[Garyak]

Who’s making top notch work with them? There’s a few hundred of us over at Patcher Solutions (Proven DIY) FB group. Shoe makers, sheath makers, patchers, etc… if it’s patchers, or patcher related, it’s there. Need help, tips, it’s there. You’re invited. P.S. A pair of custom Air Jordan’s made on the CLSP will set you back a grand. 

[Spyros]

3 hours ago, Matt S said:

Are you pre-punching your stitch holes before sewing?

Yeah that seems to be a critical detail.

[DrmCa]

10 hours ago, Garyak said:

China leather patcher, enduro pro 220v ran 110v.

Do you mind me asking how you transfer power from the motor to the handwheel?

[fredk]

Tell me somat please; this thread applicator does not appear to have dogs for moving the leather between stitches, so do you have to move your item along and sort-of guess where to put the next stitch? With pre-punched holes you'd just be aiming the needle into that hole?

[chrisash]

Have seen "Pre Punched Holes" mentioned before, why would and one combine pre punched holes and then use a sewing machine, What am I missing?

 

[Frodo]

[kgg]

53 minutes ago, chrisash said:

Have seen "Pre Punched Holes" mentioned before, why would and one combine pre punched holes and then use a sewing machine, What am I missing?

The advantage, I think, is being able to use larger threads without the machine having to contend with the stresses of forcing the needle through and moving thick material. The benefit is being able to use a less capable less expensive machine while giving a good looking stitch.

kgg

[DrmCa]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

do you have to move your item along and sort-of guess where to put the next stitch?

No, you do not. You simply allow it to advance the material, and you turn it by nudging it in the right direction.

[chuck123wapati]

There have been three threads on this same subject in the last week. A tool, a good tool doesn't need fixed before you can use it. Doesn't need you to do half the work its intended to do.   That's why its a tool its to make life easier not harder, more complicated ,or more difficult. No one would buy a new car and expect to crawl under it and start working on it just to get it to go. Just from  from the many pictures it is not hard to see it is terrible manufacturing, everything from poor foundry work, terrible machining to a tripod stand that wouldn't hold up a iPhone. Its appears to be a copy of the old singer made 120 years ago with one exception the one 120 years old worked right out of the box was better machined with better casting and many are still in service. By the time you punch all the holes by hand your halfway done and stitching isn't the hard part.

I would like to see one person that can sew a foot/12 inches  with this machine without pre-punching, making a decent stitch on both sides and no feet marks, something that would be saleable. It was designed to sew, moving the material without marring, punching the holes and inserting the thread, tightening the stitch neatly on both sides and ending with a backstitch.

[Matt S]

4 hours ago, fredk said:

Tell me somat please; this thread applicator does not appear to have dogs for moving the leather between stitches, so do you have to move your item along and sort-of guess where to put the next stitch? With pre-punched holes you'd just be aiming the needle into that hole?

It's a top-feed-only, like most (all?) patchers -- only the foot drags the material along, since the foot is steerable in any direction. The foot that comes as standard is rather aggressive (since the machine is designed for sewing cloth rather than leather). Many people wrap it in rubber tape to reduce the marks that would be left on leather.

Regards stitch spacing, if the item is pre-punched the procedure would be to adjust the stitch regulator to as close as possible to the punched length. The machine would never exactly match the holes so there would have to either be a bit of jiggery-pokery making sure the needle lines up with the hole each time, or maybe the foot grippage is so light and needle is stiff enough to guide the piece a little once the tip enters the top of the hole. Either way, this approach is still prone to stitch length/spacing errors and must be about as slow as needle-and-awl saddle stitch.

[fredk]

Thanks for all the answers everyone

[Garyak]

42 minutes ago, Matt S said:

It's a top-feed-only, like most (all?) patchers -- only the foot drags the material along, since the foot is steerable in any direction. The foot that comes as standard is rather aggressive (since the machine is designed for sewing cloth rather than leather). Many people wrap it in rubber tape to reduce the marks that would be left on leather.

Regards stitch spacing, if the item is pre-punched the procedure would be to adjust the stitch regulator to as close as possible to the punched length. The machine would never exactly match the holes so there would have to either be a bit of jiggery-pokery making sure the needle lines up with the hole each time, or maybe the foot grippage is so light and needle is stiff enough to guide the piece a little once the tip enters the top of the hole. Either way, this approach is still prone to stitch length/spacing errors and must be about as slow as needle-and-awl saddle stitch.

Yeah, it’s slow, slower than needle and awl. Horribly slow. I don’t know why I’d even try to share such an awfully slow process on such a piece of crap machine. Sorry i wasted your precious time. 
 It’s called a stitch marking wheel. They’ve been available now for a day or two. You have about an 1/8 of an inch on most sewing machines. 1/8th= 2-32nds=4-64ths . How much time would it take,  and how hard do you think it would be to get your needle to match up if you were (pre punching) holes? You got a whole 1/8 to work with? I don’t care how you stitch, if it works for you, do it. There are literally 100’s of these machines purchased everyday, with 100’s of people that don’t know how to use them. It’s my job to teach the ones wanting to learn. Most of them folks, it’s all they can afford. They work with what they have, and not worry what the next man thinks. The ones that really get it move on to bigger and better machines if it fits their need, but I can guarantee you the Clsp stays in rotation. Unless you got a Claes/Pfaff you ain’t patching with 207. Clsp laughs at 207. My cobra gets scared at the mention of 207. Any  problems with using the CLSP successfully are not with the machine. Any questions I can reached in person thru Singer sewing center Corpus Christi Texas. Ask for the industrial service mechanic, on Saturday’s at Tandys instructing a class, or on Facebook. Questions only. I don’t care if I’m not doing it right according to Paul. 

[Garyak]

5 hours ago, Frodo said:

Nice. Got it stitching good? 

[chrisash]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

There have been three threads on this same subject in the last week. A tool, a good tool doesn't need fixed before you can use it. Doesn't need you to do half the work its intended to do.   That's why its a tool its to make life easier not harder, more complicated ,or more difficult. No one would buy a new car and expect to crawl under it and start working on it just to get it to go. Just from  from the many pictures it is not hard to see it is terrible manufacturing, everything from poor foundry work, terrible machining to a tripod stand that wouldn't hold up a iPhone. Its appears to be a copy of the old singer made 120 years ago with one exception the one 120 years old worked right out of the box was better machined with better casting and many are still in service. By the time you punch all the holes by hand your halfway done and stitching isn't the hard part.

I would like to see one person that can sew a foot/12 inches  with this machine without pre-punching, making a decent stitch on both sides and no feet marks, something that would be saleable. It was designed to sew, moving the material without marring, punching the holes and inserting the thread, tightening the stitch neatly on both sides and ending with a backstitch.

I don't really think production was started for leather workers like people on this forum, but more for people in the third world who just want to repair something without worry about how nice the stitches are. but a new market has now appeared for the hobby guys and girls who cannot justify the higher priced machines

[Frodo]

1 hour ago, Garyak said:

Nice. Got it stitching good? 

NO,  The foot aggression ruins the leather. I have filed the teeth, i have dipped the foot in liquid plastic and have covered the foot with medical tubing.

filing did not work,  the liquids plastic just split and laughed at me and the tubing would not allow the leather to move 

That along with when you back stitch the thread snarls up under the leather

If you can tell me how to operate the machine so the foot feeds the leather and it does not mark it up at the same time. I am ALL EARS

What i am not going to do is pre punch holes. I might as well hand sew

  machine fixed the hell out of my Pumas

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, Garyak said:

Yeah, it’s slow, slower than needle and awl. Horribly slow. I don’t know why I’d even try to share such an awfully slow process on such a piece of crap machine. Sorry i wasted your precious time. 

So sarcasm aside how long does it take you to sew a seam, say 6" long in a single thickness of 3mm/8oz tooling leather, from start to finish?
 

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...how hard do you think it would be to get your needle to match up if you were (pre punching) holes?

Well thinking back to the many times I've done it with various machines (including the Chinese patcher I used to own). Holes laid out with dividers, with pricking irons, with stitching chisels, and with sewing machines (where I had to unpick the stitches due to balance issues). If you don't have the stitch length dialled exactly right you have to lift the foot and adjust the piece every few inches, otherwise the inevitable miniscule difference between the machine's set stitch length and the hole distance compounds to a noticeable amount. This can also cause issues with inconsistent tension. Alternatively you can set the stitch length at zero and manually position the piece with the marked or punched holes. Not difficult, but slow and frustrating, especially without a foot/knee lift.
 

Quote

It’s called a stitch marking wheel.

So that photo is a different technique from where you posted last week that you punch all your holes before sewing? Will your patcher reliably penetrate and tension 207 thread top and bottom through one or more thicknesses of tooling leather?

 

Quote

I don’t care how you stitch, if it works for you, do it.

Like I said up the page, if you're happy with those seams and your workflow, great.

[DrmCa]

17 hours ago, Garyak said:

or on Facebook

It is just too bad that your group and some others (like, Anet 3D printer USB driver group) only have presence on FB because I consider its creator a criminal and refuse to aid and abet him by using his services. Hacking into his school's computer and seeding FB's database with stolen personal information of unsuspecting minors is still a crime, in my books, even though nobody else seems to care. Not to start a flame war, just saying.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, DrmCa said:

It is just too bad that your group and some others (like, Anet 3D printer USB driver group) only have presence on FB because I consider its creator a criminal and refuse to aid and abet him by using his services. Hacking into his school's computer and seeding FB's database with stolen personal information of unsuspecting minors is still a crime, in my books, even though nobody else seems to care. Not to start a flame war, just saying.

[dikman]

I have an intense dislike of FB groups as I find them unstructured and it's difficult to find information without constantly asking the same questions for someone to answer - again. I've joined a couple but haven't been back for years. I much prefer forums, where you have various subsections to find specific information.

Garyak, is your machine the same as the original photo in the thread? It just looks different. As for #207 thread, there's no way mine would handle that (and with the small bobbin I wouldn't want to try stitching anything very big), even #138 is pushing it. Mine is happy with #69. I must admit I haven't used mine since I bought it, I consider it for "emergencies" only. It was a challenge to get it running properly, which I enjoyed (as KGG said, it's a tinker's delight) but I have far better machines to sew with.