Wizcrafts

You've made a wise decision. If you even need technical assistance, the dealer is a phone call away and speaks the same language and is in the same time zone. You can get thread, needles, bobbins and accessories in-country instead of by a slow boat from China.

Those are domestic/home cloth garment sewing machines, not industrial leather sewing machines. This forum deals with industrial leather sewing machines. There is no comparison between the itsy bitsy motor on that machine and the huge motors used on industrial leather sewing machines.

I have a Techsew 2700 in my shop and wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. It handles thread sizes 46 through 138, although I stop at #92 in that machine. If I need #138 thread, I use my CB4500, or Singer 42-5. As for the 2700, once properly adjusted and lubed, it can sew 2 ounces of clear vinyl, with #46 thread, up to about 18 or 20 ounces of medium temper leather, with #138 thread. I tend to use mine for lesser thicknesses, like 16 ounces and under. If you get a 2700 and don't also get a drop down edge guide (which you will need), you will need to buy edge guide outer presser feet. They range in spacing from 1/8 to 5/16 inches from the needle to the spring guide.

Fur machines combine layers at the very top with a whipstitch across the top. Some may even roll the material over toward the machine as they sew. There is just one thread and a looper, so it is a form of chainstitch, but really a coverstitch. Multiple pieces are pieced together at the top, sides and bottom with the fur inside and skin outside.This way when you open up the pieces, there is just fur showing on the outside and the coverstitch is hidden. I may be getting a Bonis fur machine shortly. If I do I will report back here.

I've bronze brazed to build up the worn puck on a 29-?, then used files and Emory cloth to bring it down to the best fit in the ring, then polished it on a buffer with green buffing compound. It lasted for a few years and never lost its stitch length (5/inch) as long as I owned it. That was a long time ago, in a land far far away.

Yeah yeah yeah, okay

There are no drawbacks to using the same size thread on top and bottom. On the contrary, it provides maximum strength per stitch for the thread's rating. However, you have to use the larger of any recommended range of needle sizes. For example, to sew #277 thread on top and bottom calls for a #25 needle. A #24 will punch a tight hole that makes it hard to hold down the leather on the upstroke. If the leather lifts on the upstroke, you will get skipped stitches and ratted thread. Sometimes you'll want to have a thicker thread on the top for appearances only, not to hold the project together against a lot of forces pulling it apart. In this case use a smaller thread in the bobbin, plus one size smaller needle and possibly increase the bobbin tension or back off the top tension to keep the knots from coming up too high. As for the thread size in differing thicknesses, choose the largest thread that you can bury the knots so they are not visible from the top or bottom. For 1/4 inch, that could be either #207 or #277 thread. For 3/4 inch it would be either #346 or #415 thread. I personally limit my maximum thread size to #346 because it's hard to find #415 in anything other than black and white. A 3/4 inch stack of veg-tan leather will tend to deflect the needle if it is too small. Use a larger needle to reduce deflection and poke a large enough hole for the knots to be centered without maxing out the tension and pressure springs. I use a #26 or #27 needle with #346 thread in any stack approaching 3/4 inch. This size needle pokes a huge hole, so stretch out the stitch length to no less than 5 to the inch. One more thing is the strength of the pressure spring. It needs to be very strong to hold down 3/4 inch of leather. All of these recommendations assume that the machine you are getting is actually capable of using these sizes of needles and thread and holding down thick stacks of leather. Can you test the machine before taking delivery, or will the seller run a test stack for you with heavy thread and large needles? FYI: When I got my Cowboy CB4500 and when one of my buddies got a Cobra Class 4, there was a 3/4 inch stack of leather sewn off with #277 thread and a #25 needle under the feet. Buy various sizes of needles and thread and see how things play out for you. It will take some adjustments to change thicknesses and thread sizes. You will learn this as you experiment and use your machine. Always keep leather scraps handy and sew the same thickness off as a test strip to get the knots positioned in the middle and the best looking stitch length.

Portable walking foot machine owners need to be aware that these machines are dual feed from the feed dogs and outside/rear foot. There is no needle feed. A totally smooth presser foot won't help feed hard or sticky top grain leather. How much this affects any given project will vary with the actual cut of leather, thickness, needle and thread size, plus the amount of foot pressure applied to the stack. Sailrite, Morse and their clones are really meant to sew marine and outdoor vinyl (e.g., ATV and motorcycle seats, seat cushions, boat and truck bed covers, etc.). Hence the teeth on the feet.

As for thread, I recommend bonded nylon for most jobs and bonded polyester if the work will be exposed to UV rays for prolonged times. Seeing as how your patchers are both small bobbin models, you should probably limit the thread to #69. It has 11 pounds test and goes a long way in the small bobbins. A #18 needle is a good match. The largest thread I would use in those small bobbin patchers is #92 bonded, with a #19 or #20 needle.

You can get your bobbin winder, bobbins, shuttles, needles, thread, oil and belting from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. They also have some internal replacement parts salvaged from donor machines as well as aftermarket parts. The old rusty base will clean up with solvent and can be repainted with a heavy gloss black paint that will make it pop. Ditto for the old 29-4 head. Decals are available on the web and have been discussed on this forum in the past (quite recently). The 29-4 is a very basic machine compared to the k71. If worn out, some of the ancient drive gears are not replaceable except from a donor machine or machine shop. In contrast, most parts for the k71 are available in the aftermarket. Use system 29x3 (round point for cloth) and 29x4 (leather point) needles in the old patcher and system 135x17 (cloth) or 135x16 (leather) in the 29k71. Note: The original system 29 needles didn't have a cutout scarf above the eye. Newer ones may. Most people now use system 135x16 or 17 walking foot needles in their patchers. They are almost the same as the 29x needles, but all have a scarf above the eye. System 135x16/17 are available in regular steel or titanium coated. I prefer titanium needles because they better resist gumming from leather tape and glue.

Most likely the big black thumbscrew is the primary rear foot pressure spring adjuster. The spring would be a long, flat, heavy steel spring running inline with the back of the machine. The adjuster on top of the head is probably to fine tune the pressure on the inside foot.

I was referring to little Harry's 31k15

Sometimes companies or individuals have their machines modified to perform certain non-standard functions. Maybe Harry's 31k was previously modified to release the tension on the downstroke. I don't know why anybody would want this, but who knows. In contrast, there are some Singer machines totally lacking a tension release mechanism, like my 42-5. That's another story.

The Singer 153 doesn't appear to have a synchronous binder; just a static bolt on folder attachment. Since you don't know if anything has been removed, or replaced, it could involve as little as a standard throat plate and regular presser feet, to as much as those plus a standard feed dog and adjusting the feed timing and motion and possibly the cam that moves the feed dog. Unless the seller knows what has been modified, what has been removed and has the original parts, this is going to be a possibly expensive crap shoot. The binder on the Singer is just a screw-on attachment that can be unscrewed.

Hopefully, all of the accessory plates and feet will fit properly. Good luck!

Welcome to Leatherworker.net, Rylando. You are asking about two totally different classes of sewing machine. The walking foot machines sold by most dealers are for upholstery materials ranging from a couple ounces up to about 18 or 20 ounces. But, these machines are not so good with thread heavier than #138 bonded nylon or bonded polyester. Holsters should be sewn with the heaviest thread possible, which is usually from #277 up. Upholstery class machines cannot handle and tension this heavy thread. The Cowboy CB3200 is not for upholstery or other thin work. It is for holsters, knife sheathes, pouches and cases ranging from about 6 ounces to 32 ounces thickness. There are no leather point needles for it under size 23, which is for #138 bonded thread. It takes over where the upholstery machines leave off. There is a Juki machine that is specifically beefed up to handle #207 bonded thread, top and bottom and can sew almost 1/2 inch of material. I would probably not include hard, dense leather in that description. It is really a heavier than usually duty walking foot machine with a longer needle system than usual. The model is LU-1508NH. Expect to pay close to 3,000, or more, for one of these machines. The Juki that your dealer is talking about is probably a DNU-1541, and possibly the more advanced features LU-1508 (not the NH heavy duty model). There is no reason to avoid a Consew 206RB-5. They are well built. Perhaps the dealer near you has one is stock that's setup and ready to try out. Anywho, $2000 will buy you a very good upholstery class walking foot machine that can handle #138 thread into about 18 to 20 ounces of leather. It will be good for thin work like wallet interiors or a few ounces, bags and belts. The only thing they aren't good for are items with a shape on the bottom. For that you will need a cylinder arm machine. That's a whole nuther story that includes machines like the Cowboy CB341.

I recommend the following item numbers: 1, 3, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12, 13,14 and 15. Some of these may ship with the machine as standard equipment, or not. You need to find out how the machine will be equipped, regarding the type of feed dog, throat plate and presser feet, as well as any edge guide. The worse case is that it ships with the "blanket" set installed and nothing else. These parts all have teeth. You should also try to establish the difference between their "narrow" and "flat" center foot. Some inside feet have a tang sticking down the center of the bottom of the inside foot, to create a groove line for the stitches to lay in (which doesn't work right on turns!). I ground mine off right away. Maybe their "flat" center foot is like that from the get-go. I have almost every part they have listed, minus the "flat" throat plate. Additionally, my machine has a drop down edge guide that can be flipped up out of the way in a heartbeat. It can also be adjusted to sit above the plane of the throat plate to allow protruding bottom layers (linings) to pass under the roller. I don't see that option on their accessories page. That guide needs to be mounted by drilling and tapping holes in the back of the head. Cowboy dealers do that before shipping their machines, if it is so ordered with the machine. You are going to need a really good adjustable speed, 550 Watts or more servo motor, with a 50mm pulley, and a 3:1 speed reducer to operate this machine at very slow speeds into multi-layer holsters. The motor alone probably won't penetrate hard veg-tan at slow motor speeds. Avoid brushless motors that start up at 100, 200, or more rpm. You need a motor that gradually spins up from zero rpm. The reducer adds the torque.

Can't you buy those items from Keestar? Surely they offer presser feet, throat plates, edge guides, thread and needles for the machines they are cloning... Or, do they expect buyers of their machines to buy feet and other accessories from CowboySew/Hightex?

LOL. That's where I get all my motors and reducers.

Different dealers have different overheads (rent or property taxes, business taxes, electricity, heating fuel, phones, Internet, employees making above avg hours wages, employee benefits, insurance). Also, larger dealerships selling larger volumes of a particular brand may get a price break when they order multiple machines at a time from the wholesaler; i.e., volume discount at the wholesale level. Then, dealers have to pay shipping from the wholesale source and do paperwork, pay fees and import duty and taxes up front if they imported the machines themselves. Finally, the new machines usually have to be picked up from a terminal or warehouse, involving fuel expense, vehicle insurance, fleet maintenance, then uncrated, degreased, assembled, lubed, timed and sewn off before they are sold. I used to work for an industrial sewing machine shop when I lived in Toronto. They sold tons of Juki machines of every shape and function. There were a lot of employees and trucks. I know the ropes.

I had to add a speed reducer to my Singer 168 that has a servo motor to get it to turn over and penetrate leather when the speed limiter dial was turned way down low, just above the starting position. Otherwise, the knob had to be turned up higher and it was off to the races at startup. With the reducer, it powers the machine at very slow speeds and penetrates anything under the feet without any help from me. Some of these motors have less torque as they begin to spin and the limiter pot is just at the starting position. The same problem existed on the SewPro 500GR motors I used to use. Its limiter knob had to be turned up about half way to get it to turn the machine over. It seems to be a controller design problem. Maybe the Chinese motor builders need to design (or steal) a different type of signal modulation controller to get more starting torque at very slow speeds. However, that may produce more heat, requiring a metal box instead of the common plastic in common use.

I've never heard of that band. Do you have a link, or specs, or photos of it?

Cobra, Cowboy and Techsew all offer roller foot post machines with either bottom feed only or driven top and bottom feed. I own a Singer post machine that has triple feed walking feet and can handle #207 thread. That's great for the repair work I do, but not for shoe uppers where 100% visibility of the needle is required. Nothing beats a roller foot for needle visibility. Because roller machines were meant for precision sewing they rarely are able to tension or clear heavier thread than #69 or maybe 92. The clearances are purposely set very tight for small needles and thread to sew tiny, perfect stitches into shoe uppers. Some roller machines are preset to sew 25 to 32 stitches per inch with a #9 or #10 needle and #33 thread. You can't expect such a machine to also accept a #19 needle and #92 thread.

I owned an Adler 204-374 for a couple of weeks and learned that the difference between it and the -370 is that the -370 feed dog has teeth whereas the -374 feed dog is smooth on top. The same applied to the 205-370 and -374. The 204 uses the same cylindrical bobbins as the Adler 205 and Cowboy/Cobra/Juki 441 machines.

Here is an old discussion about the Pfaff 1445 on Leatherworker.net.