NVLeatherWorx

Here is where I go with it: Oil - 50%, Beeswax - 30%, Cocoa Butter - 20%; you can dabble with it and come up with whatever you find feels best to you. I always take a piece of unfinished veg-tan with me and when someone asks about the conditioner I apply some and then buff it off after a few minutes (like to let the oil soak in and beeswax to firm up first). Then I take and put a drop of water on the leather and let it sit there. I leave it there for a couple of hours and everyone else that sees it gets that spark in their eye that they just have to get some of that stuff. Now, you need to be very clear that this in no way will permanently waterproof the leather; nothing really will regardless of the claims and published information; it does doe very well at repelling water for a very extended time though and that is the key. Good luck and have some fun with it. If you get into the business of packaging and selling you can find the perfect tins (that is what I use) on Amazon. I have 1/2 oz. tins that I give away on all sales over $90, 1 oz., 2 oz., and 4 oz. tins that I sell. The 1/2 oz. tin alone will last a couple of years, maybe 4 (depending on the number of leather items that it is used on of course). It doesn't take much to work but you will learn that shortly.

There isn't really anything personal about the blend. I use natural beeswax (it has been heavily filtered to get all of the junk out but is as pure as it can be, and without all the smoke smell), Pure Neatsfoot Oil (no compound garbage), and Pure Cocoa Butter; the trick is to get the right ratios so you have a finished product that has the same consistency as lip balm. In fact, I have one local leather craftsman that uses my sealer as his Mustache wax for the "handle bars", he loves it. It doesn't have a honey smell or any other smell for that matter but it does bring out the natural aroma of the leather, especially if it is a true Oak tan leather; you get the real leather smell without all of that "perfume" smell to cover up the stench of a lesser tanning solutions.

Pro Dye, Pure Neatsfoot Oil (not that Compound crap), and my sealer of choice is my own blend that I make right here in the shop; all pure and natural ingredients without all of those "essential" oils that just stink the place up and make leather nasty.

Hey Mutt, As long as you are on this side of the Dark Side, we are all good. It is those who wish to be on the other side of the Dark Side that should worry.

Welcome to the wonderful world of leatherwork and the forums that provide for more inspiration than any book does. I know the Passau region as I was in the Nuernberg area for 14 years (81 to 95, and yes, I speak the language too) before I was reassigned to the United States. Your work is pretty darn good for a newcomer and it will definitely improve as you continue to absorb new information and guidance from these forums. Looking forward to seeing more work as you progress and most of us are pretty open to direct contact as well if you feel the need.

Aren't we all! But my military life required me to learn patience because you have to wait sometimes for the object of your mission to make itself present, and then you eliminate it with extreme prejudice.

And I believe that the Leathercraft Library by Tandy has some Camp type projects and ideas that you can download for FREE to help expand some of what you are looking at doing. You can get to it by visiting Tandy Leathercraft Library and then go to the Educational Lesson Plans section, you will find a Non-Tooling and Tooling category.

I am sure that there is someone out there who has said that and I am sure that there are several that have done it. I always start with my right hand needle and keep it to the back of the hole (closest to my chest, some would call this the bottom needle) and the needle entering from the left will always go on the outer side of the right needle (away from my chest, this is what some would call the top needle). I do this regardless of whether I am stitching forward or backward so as to maintain a consistent line and appearance. And I always pull my needles straight out and away from the leather to ensure that the stitch lays straight on the line. I have never reversed my process yet. Check this thread to see what my lines look like on both sides. http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/81834-new-thread-company-advice/?page=2

All I can say to you Fredo is that you have fallen victim to the same thing that we have all done ourselves. When I first started working with leather I was impatient too and I wanted to get finished with my current project so that I could move on to the next one. However, I learned from this impatience that for every one I messed up or totally ruined I had gained insight into how important it was to let time be my friend. As I continued my education and skills improvement towards ultimately making this a career/profession time truly did become my friend because in order for me to make the quality products that I do I have to wait patiently for the previous task to be properly completed (whether it means the leather has to dry or whatever) before I can move on. I now move on to the next order and work on it until I get to a point where I need to let it do what it needs to do and then return to the previous order and take the next step. As to why we did what we did? I guess it really is just human nature to want to get it done as fast as possible, even though we know better than to do that. On another note, I noticed your little closing line in the signature area, Infantry. Your comment could not be more accurate as I have been a 12B, 19D, and 18Z during my years of service and we all end up doing the same thing, fight the enemy in every way possible and available.

When I backstitch I keep my needles in the same position so that the second stitch will lay right on top of the first stitch.

The dyes that you are using will also determine how much buffing you will need to do and what sealing/top coat method and process you will need to follow. No dye/stain is made the same way as another so each one will have a different requirement to make sure that you get all of the excess pigment off of the leather before you move on to the sealing process. I, for example, use the Fiebing's Pro Dye line and have done so since they added it to their line. I apply my dye while there is still some moisture in the leather so that it will pull into the fibers as the water evaporates; this also helps with the leather curling up on the edges with the thinner weights. Once it is set (8 to 12 hours) I buff it with old denim rags to ensure that I grab as much remaining residue as possible. I will then dampen a clean denim rag and buff again to pick up any remaining "pigment dust" (as I call it) and let it dry off (takes about 30 minutes is all as long as you didn't wet the leather). I will give it another buff with a cotton cloth just to make sure that there is no more residue. Once I can buff it with a white cloth and not see any "rub off" I then move on to my oil application, followed by top coat after the oil has set (again, 8 hours at least to make sure that it has actually penetrated and there is no surface "slick" left behind). I have been doing it this way for years and have never had a bleed issue with it yet.

When making something like a leather wallet or other handmade leather item the expected life concept is: you should be making an item that EXCEEDS the standard expected life of a like item. Example: standard store bought leather wallet may be lucky to have a life span of useful use before failure/issues arise with its construction of about 1 year; leather item made by a person who purchases a kit and then assembles it following the basic instructions with not other skills or experience in the craft will make it at least 2 to 3 years (if they did exactly what they were instructed to do); a masterfully crafted handmade item that has had great care taken to ensure that it has durability, quality, and strength build into it will last decades as long as all of the materials used in the making of that item were selected to meet that objective. I have wallets that are still in use today that I made back in the early 1980's and they are still the original stitching. That is possible because I used the correct weight of leather and the stitching thread was properly selected for the project to ensure that I gave my customer a finished item that will have a useful life that will span far further than anything else they could get from other sources. A professional craftsman determines the life of the item by the selection of materials, supporting supplies (thread, lace, dyes, etc.), and the techniques and skills employed to make the item; there is no "standard life span" of any item regardless of what may be read on the Internet. We control the quality and results of success, not some "industry standard" that some genius brews up in their head.

If you are performing the steps of the saddle stitch properly then there is no chance of stabbing through the thread as some have mentioned here in this thread. The stabbing of the thread is only a risk if you pull one stitch all the way through then push your opposite needle through from the other side. This also results in your stitching looking inconsistent, especially on the reverse side of your project. Both needles need to be pushed into the stitching hole from each side and you need to ensure that you maintain the orientation of the needles from start to finish, even when doing your back stitch to end the line. The only other suggestion I can offer is to make sure that when you are pulling your needles through the hole that you make sure that the trailing end remains below the needle on both sides of the leather to ensure that it lays in straight and consistently. As easy as saddle stitching may seem it can create issues if not done properly and consistently and the outcome is not always pretty to look at.

I am actually in Fernley, or as we call it - Ferntucky, just this side of Fallabama.

The tanning formula is one of the main factors as to how a leather will smell. A tanning run that has been done here in the U.S. using the traditional Oak tanning formula will have a smell but it won't be overly prominent. I don't even smell the leather any more in my shop because I have stuck with the same sources since I started with leather. However, I have tried some of the cheaper leathers just for giggles and have found that when you have leather that has been tanned in Asia, Mexico, Central and South America, and many other countries where their base materials are of lesser quality and not quality tanning products that you get leather that has a distinct aroma, somewhat Ammonia like, and that is due to the fact that (and this actually true information) the pH of the water used has a negative impact, the fact that the base formula is not of Oak but of other lesser quality barks and oils, and several of these countries actually include animal urine in the blend to help break down the cell structure of the raw hide. All of this leads to a totally different and often disliked smell and when a piece of leather comes into my shop, whether I brought it in or someone comes in with an item that has been made with such leather, I get that smell immediately. So, for those who think that the higher price does not always mean quality, I would suggest that you dabble with a range of leathers and see for yourself which one's are offensive or not, and which one's tool, dye, burnish, and shape well and you will find that the leathers here in the U.S. and some select tanneries in the U.K., France, and Italy have the finest leather there is and they all have the same things in common: they use quality Oak based vegetable formula, high quality water (whether filtered or natural spring), and they use the same formula and processes as have been used since the founding of that tannery. Yes, they do cost more than some of these other leathers like Tandy and other retailers but if you are serious about making quality leather goods you need to be serious about using quality leather and that will cost you a bit more do so.

Tiger thread is available at a cost but I buy mine from a supplier and my cost per yard is $.06. I am also doing some testing for another gentleman who is looking to start up a thread company (he has in fact already committed to it at this point) and he is based in Texas. His thread is manufactured in Germany, just like Tiger, and it is quite comparable at this point during my testing. Yes, there are many other suppliers out there and I have used many of these threads over the years that I have worked with leather yet I still stick with Tiger because it has all of the things that I look for in a thread: durability, UV resistance, ease of use, and I can get it at a price that is less than what most of those Far East threads and other lesser threads cost. And welcome to the group, it is nice to see another person in here that is close to me (I am literally 36 miles away).

There is a leather goods manufacturer in Oregon that has a multi-colored veg-tan line that was done with a process very similar to what you saw with the guitar. You can do this with Cova Color acrylic leather paint and achieve just about the same thing you saw them do with the guitar. I have seen it done using a few different techniques and always on a larger piece of leather that would be used later to take the various components from. And your observations from your previous post are quite right indeed, you can try achieving a similar look by block dyeing a piece of leather with a lighter color dye and then repeating the process with a darker color that is not as saturated so that it intentionally has to streak the leather. Adding dye to a container of oil and then dragging or dipping it to achieve this result is definitely not my first option, especially for gun leather as it has to have some firmness in order to provide for the retention factor of the weapon that it carries. I could just see that as a sloppy mess for sure.

Yes, I did end up with something pretty darn close to what the OP has offered up. However, the consistency isn't always on target as the leather is going to do what it wants to do whether you agree with it or not, bossy stuff this cowhide can be. Regarding the link taking to a page that says it isn't there, this is a Google Chrome thing and I often experience it on my computer as well. However, it works every time if you use Microsoft Edge/Internet Explorer. Haven't tried the other browsers yet though. The .com version is an older one and is about to disappear from the web (next couple of days if I remember right).

There is no need to be so rough when commenting to others posts. It would be better to take a calmer approach to responses and steer clear of bashing others for their opinions. These forums are for the purpose of learning and sharing and when that turns into sniping and other forms of unnecessary banter it begins to cross a line of professionalism. Everyone is entitled to share their opinions, observations, and experience without having to feel like they are being attacked for it. On the flip side, there is also no room for name calling, racial segregation, or anything else that goes against morals and discipline, especially in an international platform like this; that stuff does need to be checked at the door but responding with short responses only keeps it going and is not what we are here for. These forums are for the open sharing of information with others around the world so if you can't do it professionally and politely you should consider another option at this point. And this is for EVERYONE to understand. Some of the comments posted here so far should have actually been moderated by now.

These smaller sizes are not commonly used by most who hand-stitch as they are not quite as hefty as the larger sizes. I personally use 0.8 for all of my interior lines and the exterior lines are 1.0. When working with threads of this style, flat versus twisted, the stitch lays down much better and does not look as bulky as some of those do with twisted thread. The size of the thread also relates directly to the overall longevity of the finished product and the thinner it is, the shorter the longevity is. Now, that isn't saying that there aren't some out there who prefer to work with the thinner threads but when you are working with a manufacturer to provide you with your desired product that you are going to sell to others you have to think about who your primary market is and what they use; also keep in mind that the manufacturer is going to expect certain purchase levels of everything you commit to in order for it to be worth their while to invest in the tooling and production line equipment requirements and if you can't commit to what they may require from you then that is where that desire for that certain something comes to an end. In the case here the manufacturer knows what the limits of their production line are and also have a vast knowledge in the limitations of the finished products across the various thicknesses and have made a business decision to not enter into certain sizes at this time. They may change their mind if there is enough evidence of a market need but that is for them to determine. Gary maintains contact with them very religiously so the door isn't totally locked down, it is just kind of closed with a screen door for now.

Why thank you for the kind words Sir. I had to take a break from this world as I just saw way too much inexperience trying to shed light on things that were unknown to them, and there is still some of that going around, but I came back to make sure that the knowledge possessed by the experienced craftsmen, and we all know that there are many here that meet that level, doesn't disappear as we eventually dwindle from existence. The only way that a new craftsman can gain true knowledge is if they are "mentored" by those who have knowledge and experience; this is our own unofficial "Apprenticeship" program if you will and I just felt like I need to get back here for that reason. I thank you again for the kind words, and I can also tell you that this thread is quite nice so far. Even though I am a Tiger Thread guy, this is right there with it. As Gary gets closer to the end of the beginning, I am sure that he will see success here.

So, with your responses so far on this topic one would think that you are the person behind the work being talked about. Is that the case? If so, nice work and it is truly nice. If not, then please explain to us how you know that, for instance, the stitching is all done by hand. I say this because those stitching lines, with that standard machine thread, do not look like they are hand stitched, and that is why others have asked that question. So, if you have more information on this item and would like to help everyone understand it better don't hold back on it. And, on another note. I would be very careful making a statement of: Reader beware, there is a lot of false info in this thread. I say this because you have several very experienced professional leather craftsmen reading the threads throughout this forum and they do occasionally offer some information which is based on years of experience and making a statement of that type is quite offensive to those of us who are not new to this trade. Just be careful and tread lightly is always a good policy.

He calls it "pooled oil" because that is what he calls it. It isn't really any special technique it is just how you apply the oil. I have been able to achieve varied outcomes with dying by applying more oil to some areas over others. In the case of what you are talking about I would suggest that you run some tests on dyed scrap leather and create your own outcome as well. The version that I have found I like most from my own testing was to apply a light even application of the oil before dying and let it sit for about 12 hours. I would then dye my piece and let it set overnight. The next day I used a small dauber and would soak it in oil and then just randomly drag it across the leather while making sure that I applied the oil to where it would pool on top of the leather. As the oil slowly penetrates it also will leach out a bit more into the fibers but it also is darker in those areas than in those that only have the original treatment applied.

The best value is for sure not from Tandy but your costs are going to be more or less depending on where you are in relation to where you buy from. I only use H.O. veg-tan and I have 3 sources from where I pull from: direct from Tannery when I have a large need, Springfield Leather when I have a unique need (varied sizes), and Hide House in Napa, CA (I place my order and let them know exactly what I am looking for and have never had a problem with the results or quality). The Hide House is also close enough to me that I can actually make a day trip over the Sierra Nevada's and pick out my own hides, that makes it a nice thing indeed. And yes, $300 for a side of H.O. is steep but you have to shop around for the quality and value. If you are in it for business then you want to look at those suppliers who have special programs for that purpose, this also means cheaper pricing. The Chahin tannery in Mexico was mentioned but I would recommend that you stay clear of anything South of the border as they do not use the same formula as what is used here and in Europe, we all use an Oak based (original formula ingredient) for veg-tan where all of the tanneries in Mexico, Central, and South America use a more widely available plant product for their formula. The water is also not as good and the combination results in a leather that takes on a reddish tint when cased, doesn't tool well, has issues taking dye/stain, and also has a totally different smell to it, almost acidic.

So, Gary, I have done an item using the 1.2 thread that you sent to me and have some observations on it and how it works out. I have provided these images as well so you can see how it turned out. One of the first things that I noticed about this thread is that the wax content is very low when compared to some of the more popular threads that many of us are using; you had made mention that this was one of your areas of concern for the smaller threads and I agree with you when you said that it can be done because we all know that it has. The next thing I noticed about the thread was that it was more rounded than flat (actually oval shaped if you want to get specific) and the braiding patter is identical to Tiger Thread (I broke some of it down and compared it to the Tiger), right down to the strand count (yup, I took my time). Makes me wonder if this thread has a former member of the Ritza production team onboard and that they are trying to put some direct competition on them; but, that is for others to worry about if it is needed. One key thing of note that I picked up on right away though was this thread did not try bind or twist itself around like many other threads do which made being able to complete a run a bit less time consuming. Due to the size of the thread I had to set a stitching groove on each side of the project but the groove was not very deep and once the thread was laid in it was flush with the primary surface; laid in real well indeed. So, to combat the lack of wax I gave it a couple pulls across my organic pure beeswax block (most other beeswax blocks for waxing thread also contain Paraffin wax which gets clunky on the thread) and it glided right through the leather; I actually punched smaller holes than I normally would just to test it to the limits of ease of use and I was quite impressed. Now, if you are able to get the producer of this thread to give you the sizes, colors, spool sizes, and pricing that will allow to at least come up even with the cost per yard for Tiger Thread, you might be onto something and be able to make a go of it. However, the manufacturer would have to get the wax content a bit heavier and they would have to be able to keep you supplied so that we can get the product when we need it (this is sometimes an issue with Tiger Thread and I have had to wait for a few weeks on occasion for my thread; time is money and none of us can afford to lose either). Overall, I was quite impressed with the sample that you sent and would be very anxious to see what else this manufacturer can provide you. I will also tell you this, if the other manufacturers are not at least equaling the quality of this 1.2 thread you need to determine whether or not they are capable of doing so and, if not, just ending all further communications and project coordination with them. Now, here are the pictures of the simple project that I did with this thread and take note of how the stitches line up and lay down in the shallow grooves.