Chinese Imported Sewing Machines

[willford]

I have been looking for a new cylinder bed sewing machine. I have been looking locally (New Zealand) and also on alibaba.com. I have found a lot of machines on alibaba and they are the same as any other 341 machine. Does anyone know what difference in quality there is or are they all the same just different name tag?

 

 

[chrisash]

Many clones will be made from the same factory to the same standard (good or bad) but just badged according to buyers requirements. i.e. buyer "A" buys 100 with "aaa" as name and buyer "B" buys 50 with his name "BBB" and so on

The guarantee and local agents if something goes wrong are the most important things to differentiate between them

Edited September 5, 2019 by chrisash

[Matt S]

I think @amuckart, one of your countrymen, documented his adventure importing a 441 clone directly from China and setting it up. Might be worth a read.

Buying a machine sight-unseen, from a semi-anonymous dealer who is essentially unreachable in the event of something being wrong with your machine, is a bit of a gamble. Proper, decent dealers do more than simply uncrate a machine and put a hefty price-tag on it. There's a lot of steps involved in checking the machines, making sure they're correctly timed, cleaned, setup for leather and such. This is also the stage when the real QC checks are made. Do you know how to check that the shuttlehook is burr-free, or how to swap out the lower-shaft bearings if those in your machine are bad?

If the intention is to save a few $, it is my opinion that importing a single machine directly is a false economy -- especially if you're intending to use it to make stuff for profit. If you can't find a certain machine in your country that's a different story.

[amuckart]

Hi Willford. Whereabouts in NZ are you?

I got a Cowboy/Hightex CB-4500 imported directly and it's not a process I would recommend unless you're already a skilled mechanic. I'm strictly an amateur and had time to learn how to get my machine up and running but it took quite a while and I had zero support.

I absolutely wouldn't buy a machine off of Alibaba/Aliexpress. Parts, yes, whole machines, no. Not unless you're willing to have an unsupported non-working machine land on your doorstep.

If I were you I'd talk to Auckland Sewing and see what they've got. They're the NZ distributor for Cowboy/Hightex now and I've always had good service from them. Their Internet presence is mostly TradeMe but you can email them. https://www.trademe.co.nz/stores/auckland-sewing-ltd

[jimi]

Even parts!! this is from Aliexpress!!!

 

wrong size completely, rusted and the rear foot has a smaller hole which the screw does not fit. so really the only thing that went good was the front foot, and the needle plate only fits this feed dog!!   They might have got it mixed up with an Adler 69

Edited September 16, 2019 by jimi

[Constabulary]

Jimi - thats just because of the  earth's curvature 

I fortunately mainly had luck with chinese parts, except that they once have sent left toe instead of right toe feet but it was so cheap I didn´t even complain. I agree - its a gamble but there are some "good parts dealers" on Ebay who sell sewing machine parts only (always check what else they sell) so they pretty much know what they do (and sell). But a complete machine - well I was thinking of that too but didn´t dare! And being honest, I have found all my machines used so there is no real demand but a 227R / 153w clone is what I wouldn´t mind to own - and a Singer 97 (but no clones available )

Joke aside - I agree with AMUCKART. If sewing machine and their mechanics are not what you are "used to" it could end up as a big loss. I would rather check with a dealer or try to find something used. Don´t get me wrong - I´m not saying it will a fail in general but chances are high!

[jimi]

4 minutes ago, Constabulary said:

Jimi - thats just because of the  earth's curvature 

Yes the Curvature   I must say up until now most parts that i have got from there have been usable, just the holes needed filed a little, this one was cheap so i got what i payed for... A whole machine could be someones nightmare if it all goes wrong....

[Northmount]

Moved this thread to leather sewing machines.

Tom

[dikman]

Unless you're getting it at an absolutely bargain price then I doubt if it will be worth the effort. Too much to go wrong.

[noobleather]

On 10/2/2019 at 1:41 PM, charlie2crows said:

Hi Wilford,

Despite what you hear from various sources the answer is YES they are the same. I have purchased three machines so far from Alibaba after Hightex/Cowboy amongst others tried some shady dealings.

Like everything you need to do your research, develop positive relationships with suppliers and once it arrives spend a little time in set-up. The information you need to do this is readily available and not at all complicated if you have the mechanical aptitude of any ten year old.

I personally have imported three machines including a 341 clone which is fantastic. My 341, shipped to Australia and delivered to my front door with a 750W servo motor, cost me US$615. It runs like a dream.

I would add that this is my own personal experience and that I have no vested commercial interests.

I have had dealings with a couple of sewing machine dealers in the US and would only recommend one.

Sewing machine dealers - NNAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did you buy them from? Any links?

[shoepatcher]

What most people do not realize is that with Chinese manufacturers,  there are basically 3 types.  The A Grade manufacturers produce some pretty good machines.  Cowboy, Cobra , Sew Tech use the A grade manufacturer.  I think all three of these machines are made in the same plant.   Weaver has their 205 clone made in an A grade manufacturer.  Nice machine.

Then you have the B grade manufacturer.  They can make some decent machines or some bad ones.  Probably depends on the day they are made.  Then you have the C grade manufacturer which produce boat anchors!.  Look good but sew and preform bad. The trick is knowing which manufacturer is an A grade.  I with rare exception do not know which are the A grade manufacturer.   Reputable dealers know.  Buy from them!!   Good dealers like Steve, Alexander, Bob, Ralph have found this out by trial , error and a lot of headaches.  They know who to buy from.  More importantly, what most people do not also realize is that these good dealers go thru each machine entirely and check all the screws and nuts to make everything is tight before they even sew it off.  That is what you are paying for, a machine gone over.

Alan at Weaver told me years ago that every genuine Adler 205 that they got in would require 1-2 hours of checking all the setting  and sewing off of the machine before it even got put on a stand.  A genuine Adler!!!  That was before the customer got it.  Lesson here is unless you are qualified to work on a machine and know what to look for, buy it from the dealer.  A lot less headaches in the long run and what is your time worth???

glenn

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

On 9/16/2019 at 4:02 AM, Constabulary said:153w clone is what I wouldn´t mind to own - and a Singer 97 (but no clones available )

I love both my 153w103 and my 97-10! I hope you find them! 

 

[nylonRigging]

2 hours ago, charlie2crows said:

With all due respect Shoepatcher what you are attempting to put forward about 3 types of manufacturers in China is just rubbish.

This is obviously something you have heard from somebody who told somebody etc........ I have personal experience and also have spoken to numerous, if not all, manufacturers of industrial machines in China. It would perhaps be a good idea if you did the same before posting something a salesman - read DEALER- has told you. I am not really that surprised you believed this.

REMEMBER - dealers exist to SELL sewing machines and accessories. FULL STOP. Whilst some are more helpful than most that is their function.

I have three machines imported directly from China with NO trouble from any of them - great after sales service, not that I have needed it. I just imported a bell skiver which also runs perfectly.

Perhaps you  should try not to fear the unknown and take a little leap now and then - you might be surprised. 

-

You got to remember that a majority of people that are learning to sew, or that do sew with machines,  don't have acquired enough machine mechanics knowledge, to feel confident enough to order a machine on-line, sight unseen from China and then drive over to a trucking delivery hub pick it up, pull a machine out of a crate and put time in for set-up and timing .

Also, The majority of people want to just slide a sew machine into a station, plug it into the wall, and go to work .  You are charged a Fee-$ for the privilege to just ' Plug & Play ' . You Can't fault the ' Middle Man Dealer ' . They are offering running  a ' legitimate service ' . ' post sales Customer Service ' . Retail Mark-up-$$ , it is a business service and You pay several hundred dollars more for it .

.

[DonInReno]

In almost every industry making rather generic components there are 1st quality and 2nds and maybe thirds that are all made in the same place, but get sold to different buyers based on their cost/quality needs.  That’s simply a fact.  To say different brands come out of the same factory is simplistic - even if two competing machines do come from the same place, you can bet the cost/quality/sorce of parts varies based on customer specs, not to mention attention to details in how it’s set up and tested.

[dikman]

I've been looking at 441's on ali-baba and there's certainly a multitude of manufacturers on there (their manufacturing plants are in different provinces). The difficulty is knowing who to deal with. With smaller items it's not so much of an issue but with something like this it's a problem. The length of time they've been trading on ali-baba might be an indicator, but it's quite possible that a relative newcomer could be trying to establish their reputation so have a quality product.

The question is - how do you know?

[Constabulary]

 

On 9/16/2019 at 11:02 AM, Constabulary said:

I love both my 153w103 and my 97-10! I hope you find them! 

 

turbotexas - where does this quote come from? I do not own either machine

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Constabulary

[dikman]

I've been browsing the various manufacturers on alibaba for a 441 clone. The problem is how to determine which ones are good to deal with?

Edited November 2, 2019 by dikman

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

On 9/16/2019 at 4:02 AM, Constabulary said:

Jimi - thats just because of the  earth's curvature 

I fortunately mainly had luck with chinese parts, except that they once have sent left toe instead of right toe feet but it was so cheap I didn´t even complain. I agree - its a gamble but there are some "good parts dealers" on Ebay who sell sewing machine parts only (always check what else they sell) so they pretty much know what they do (and sell). But a complete machine - well I was thinking of that too but didn´t dare! And being honest, I have found all my machines used so there is no real demand but a 227R / 153w clone is what I wouldn´t mind to own - and a Singer 97 (but no clones available )

Joke aside - I agree with AMUCKART. If sewing machine and their mechanics are not what you are "used to" it could end up as a big loss. I would rather check with a dealer or try to find something used. Don´t get me wrong - I´m not saying it will a fail in general but chances are high!

From here.... I tried to cut all but what you said about these.... 

Just now, turbotexas said:

From here.... I tried to cut all but what you said about these.... 

I love mine... was what I was trying to say

[dikman]

Went to the Adelaide Custom Knife Show today, and while talking to a couple of knifemakers there (I know many of them from previous shows) one mentioned that a vendor there imports leather sewing machines, among their many other products. So off I trot to have a word with him and yes, they sell Cowboy machines. He said to call their head office tomorrow and talk to Bob, who handles the leather side of things. I left feeling optimistic.

When I got home I thought I'd check their website and the only machine they list is the CB3200, which is fine, unfortunately the price of $3700 is not so fine! Nor is $2900 for a hand crank head-only.

Looks like I'm back to figuring out the practicalities of importing a 441 clone (probably head only).

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

5 hours ago, dikman said:

Went to the Adelaide Custom Knife Show today, and while talking to a couple of knifemakers there (I know many of them from previous shows) one mentioned that a vendor there imports leather sewing machines, among their many other products. So off I trot to have a word with him and yes, they sell Cowboy machines. He said to call their head office tomorrow and talk to Bob, who handles the leather side of things. I left feeling optimistic.

When I got home I thought I'd check their website and the only machine they list is the CB3200, which is fine, unfortunately the price of $3700 is not so fine! Nor is $2900 for a hand crank head-only.

Looks like I'm back to figuring out the practicalities of importing a 441 clone (probably head only).

Not sure, but they’re probably including the shipping and other tariffs in that price? 

[Bert51]

Sadly, it seem to be normal in Australia for most dealers to charge more then other countries for Machines Parts and Accessories and Threads.

Bert.

[Matt S]

2 hours ago, Bert51 said:

Sadly, it seem to be normal in Australia for most dealers to charge more then other countries for Machines Parts and Accessories and Threads.

Ditto for the UK. A Chinese clone 441 or 205 is about £2-3K+ 20% tax from a dealer.

[Constabulary]

18 minutes ago, Matt S said:

Ditto for the UK. A Chinese clone 441 or 205 is about £2-3K+ 20% tax from a dealer.

as long as the UK is in the EU you could import it from Germany - maybe worth comparing prices - don´t know.

[dikman]

tt, that would be the Australian retail price. Granted, our $ isn't as good as it could be for buying overseas but we have a history of being ripped off in this country. China is in our backyard geographically so shipping costs should be cheaper than sending to the US or UK. Unfortunately, for items like this it's a relatively small market so not much competition so they can charge what they like. There is an industrial sewing machine dealer here in Adelaide and his 441 equivalent is about $5,000!

[Bert51]

I agree the Aussie dollar is low, but even when it was good the price difference was the same or greater.

I have been importing sewing machine parts and needles and motor bike parts and accessories for many years and buying retail and paying postage from the US is still cheaper much then buying retail in Australia.

Bert.