pathetic. again.

[Tugadude]

Not in any order by yes, I do live in St. Louis and I actually have been to S&T.  Very nice lady there that pretty much points me to the shelves and I browse to my heart's content.  Very cheap, probably similar to what some small distributors pay their wholesaler.  So there is that.

As far as Hermann Oak, I don't buy enough leather on an annual basis to even warrant stopping in.  I am a hobbyist, never claimed to be anything else.  I buy sides when they are on super-duper specials.  I haven't been in a while, but I used to go to Springfield monthly and would stop into SLC.  Awesome people.  And I could look through the leather and select exactly what pleased me.  They used to have $20.00 sides of oddball stuff and then the price went up to $30.00 and let me tell you there are some very nice leathers available if you can use the colors/thicknesses that they have.  Again, it is odd lots.  I've made a couple of briefcases and messenger bags out of the material and they turned out great.

I don't appreciate being called naive, perhaps the comment wasn't directed at me.  If it was, I'm not losing sleep, but where I come from dealers are typically honest.  Maybe you've found dealers to be less than.  Who knows?

But my point is, when a leather distributor places an order they know what they want, order what they want and should get what they want.  Simple.  If it doesn't happen, then THEY should complain.  If you watch any of the SLC videos you will frequently see Kevin showing sides where maybe 80% of the hide is really nice but there are areas bad enough to where it is graded down.  His point is that the side contains a lot of A, some B and unfortunately some junk.  So they cannot call it A or B, but if you make smallish items you can get a great value.  They don't lie and tell you it is B when it isn't.  I refuse to believe that they do.

I'm sure somewhere there is a company falsely listing leather as better than its actual grade.  Unscrupulous people abound in any business.  But I don't think most do.

Once they buy the leather I suppose they are free to call it "premium", or "select" or otherwise make it sound special and maybe that is misleading.  But I don't think most lie about grading.

Once bitten, twice shy and all of that.  If you really believe that people aren't worth dolng business with, then stop!  But why do we have to hear about it?  They have many happy customers, myself included.  

I recommend instead of posting on forums, people contact the owner of the companies that you are having issues with.  I've met Kevin, Rusy and many others at SLC.  I guarantee they want to get it right.  If they demonstrate that they are incapable of getting it right, then stop!  Remember the definition of insanity?  Or just buy their hardware, tools or something else they cannot screw up.

8 hours ago, chrstn53 said:

Because the minimal order for the good stuff directly from Herman oak is 20 sides/backs last time I checked. Distributors like SLC let you buy small quantities, so its going to cost a lot more which is understandable. Herman Oak has been around a long time and they would never send out what was pictured and call it B grade, but there are plenty of companies out there that would buy the cheapest stuff they can in bulk and try to pass it off as higher grade leather.

Thanks for the response.  Yes, in addition to that, SLC often sells such leather by the square foot, which most providers do not.  In my experience they are very user-friendly.  I'm sure some do buy cheap stuff and then claim it is higher grade.  I don't believe SLC engages in that practice.

[JLSleather]

20 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

As far as Hermann Oak, I don't buy enough leather on an annual basis to even warrant stopping in.  I am a hobbyist, never claimed to be anything else.  I buy sides when they are on super-duper specials. 

Okay with me.  I was talking to the other guys.

22 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

But why do we have to hear about it?  They have many happy customers, myself included.  

You don't.  Click a button, you be somewhere else, just that quick.  I was talking to those who WANT to know.  If that isn't you, feel free to ignore.

No doubt, there are many sucked in with a line.  Hey.. look at this part of this hide.  It says "D" grade, but from right here to right here.. this 4.87" right in there is great.. should be called "A" leather in this 4 tenths of a square foot right between this gouge and those bites....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L7DxnwkiVs

 

[Colt W Knight]

So far, I have had the best luck ordering from Hide House. 

[JLSleather]

 Okay, changed the plan. I did call, and they did say they'd process a return.  Likely would have swapped it out for another piece, too, I'm guessing had I asked.. but no more time to wait on "stuff".  

3 minutes ago, Colt W Knight said:

So far, I have had the best luck ordering from Hide House. 

Thanks - haven't tried them ever.  I'll check that out.  Likely should just buy a bigger splitter, and just deal with the tannery.

[TonySFLDLTHR]

12 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the tannery grade the leather?  So if they call it B, then it is their mistake.  Surely SLC or any other distributor places orders with the tannery and specify what they want.  They don't ship the hides and leave it to the customer to decide what it is.

And I don't understand the comment about this being 50% higher than the cost of the good stuff.  Why not just buy the good stuff then?  Confused.

The stuff from HO is graded before it leaves STL. So, we sell it as what they send it to us as. Hopefully we will have a video showing grading and travel up to HO and have them share how they grade their leather because it is not the same way that import veg gets graded...from what I understand.

 

The pictures posted above do show the rough areas on the neck/shoulder. I will keep and eye out for your return and get it processed through. Also, so we can see the rest of that side, I will grab pictures of it from our photo department to share here.

We try very hard to make sure that we get it right, we are locally owned and have been from the beginning...in fact Kevin is here 6 if not 7 days a week (mostly in leather gathering...to teach our employees there on how to ask the right questions to get the right leathers out). We ship out any where between 300-700 packages a day, that is not to say we get it right every time, but we try. That is why we are so forgiving when we take returns and send labels out so you don't have to pay shipping back.

40 minutes ago, JLSleather said:

 Okay, changed the plan. I did call, and they did say they'd process a return.  Likely would have swapped it out for another piece, too, I'm guessing had I asked.. but no more time to wait on "stuff".  

Thanks - haven't tried them ever.  I'll check that out.  Likely should just buy a bigger splitter, and just deal with the tannery.

I'm glad that you reached out so we have a chance to get this order right for you. Seems though this is not the first order you have had that has come to this. So, if you want...we are a closer drive than PA...so come on down and you are more than welcome to hand pick your leathers out.

If anyone needs to express something different further up the line...here is Rusty's email: Rusty@springfieldleather.com

He said he is more than happy to talk with you. SLC was built on making sure we make our customers successful...so to do anything to negate that does nothing for us. 

[JLSleather]

6 minutes ago, TonySFLDLTHR said:

The pictures posted above do show the rough areas on the neck/shoulder. ... Also, so we can see the rest of that side, I will grab pictures of it from our photo department to share here.

Well, that's significantly understated, but okay.  The shoulder is AN area of problems, but it's not the only one it's just the one under the best light.  The whole skin is dry and stiff, and toward the butt the thickness drops off from .069" (which BTW is over 4 oz) to .053" in a little over a foot (that's pretty steep to me).  There's a splotch about where the hip would be which may be ink-- size of a quarter maybe.  I would have taken other pics but didn't want to manipulate it to the other (better light) table, and it's now packaged for return.  It's rough... you'll immediately wonder, as I did, how that was ever sent out as "B".  I guess we just disagree on what is acceptable tooling leather.

So, let's clarify a bit.  The point here is not to bash anybody, but to INSTRUCT people interested in working with leather.  The point of this site, yes?  Rusty, Kevin, Amanda, and a couple others I talked with about "things' in the past are all certainly polite - nobody suggesting they aren't.  Had I received that same hide from Hermann Oak, I would have had the same reaction to it.

• Tiffany ROCKS.  Give that girl a raise.  Very professionally handled a call that could not have been wonderful fun.  Seriously - KEEP that girl if you can.
• Tony is correct.  Certainly not the first bad batch I've got there.  To continue to do it doesn't pay either of us.

Idunno if I'd DRIVE down... since St Louis is 100+ miles closer for us, doesn't much pay to 'stop in' 100 miles FURTHER to pay 50% MORE unless I happened to be down that way already.  I don't mind paying the extra for the convenience (of picking up one side here and there) but if this is what the mail brings, that's not convenient.  Today, I'm writing this because I'm not lining and sewing that holster, but it only backs us up worse.

[wayner]

Ok I know I'm going to make some people mad here but I really don't give a rats A$$. A certain individual made a comment about why do we have to hear about a complaint from a member about a Vender. Well when you have 30 people that follow you on this site I would say people value your opinion. When you have 2 Followers not so much ! And yes I know I don't post a lot and there's a reason for that. 

[JLSleather]

Off the path, but I see my "allow others to follow you" thingie was turned back on - don't know when or how that happend.   Long time ago I turned it off when I realized that sensitive freak in CA was "following" me... and talkin' like we wuz buddies   posting posts in a clear attempt to make it look like I was endorsing what he says.  I had a couple dozen "followers" before I even knew you could do that here (that's how little I pay attention to that type of thing). 

I personally don't follow nobody.. so if it don't happen in that little thing in the top right of the forum for most recent stuff, I probly won't see it.

Anyway, I haven't ordered at Hermann Oak in 2020, so likely that's the issue.  So we'll see if something changed THAT MUCH of if leather from teh tannery still looks like this ↓

23 hours ago, JLSleather said:

 THIS is what you should be seeing when somebody tells you "Hermann Oak B".

 

[chuck123wapati]

I can understand completely the problems with ordering online and I have one suggestion as this is supposed to be a community of like minded people why cant someone who lives near these stores offer their service to those who don't and set up some arrangements to handpick hides for those who cant. It would be worth the headache and returns, lost time, lost money etc. just to pay or barter a bit to get what you need AND the stores would learn firsthand what the customer wants.

[JLSleather]

See, IF a guy was shopping ANYWAY - he might pick out some hides fer the next guy.  Just have em sent right from the store, so there's no "trouble" there.

Only thing is, you'd have to know who's doin' the pickin'.  No offense, but i met some folks who wouldn't recognize a snake if it bit 'em... and maybe shouldn't be pickin' leather   And THAT was the point of the topic from the beginning.  Some folks DONT KNOW what good leather should look like, so the plan was to show 1) what the good stuff looks like and 2) what is unacceptable and you should not tolerate.

In the end, though.. that's a retailer's JOB.   I can't imagine I'd be in business very long if I showed people a picture of a shiny, well-fitted holster and 'fancy smancy" tooled belt, then took their money and sent them .... something other.  Not really somebody ELSE'S job to see that i do mine.  I'm pretty clear.. and I always say I don't mind PAYING premium as long as I'm GETTING premium.