NVLeatherWorx

rawcustom: You could not be more spot on than that. That mentality is exactly what we face everyday. Whenever I set my tent up an event or show I always have a fully active work station setup so that people can just stand there and watch. I have had up to 20 people standing by and watch me carve & tool some very detailed stuff and a large number of them would stand there for over 2 hours just to see how everything progressed and eventually came to be what would be the finished product. Hardly ever a question though, yet I almost always would get about 40% of them buying an "on the shelf" item without even questioning the price. I even get some of the local "leather craftsmen" (these guys are at best a 2 hours a week hobby newb) asking me why I do something a certain way and when I explain to them the tried, true, and proven reasons behind it the common response is, "that isn't the way I was taught". Now it is my turn to ask who taught them only to find out that they were taught by someone who has only been working with leather for about 6 months themselves and has not had any formal classes or any real experience in the trade. Unfortunately, I have to tell that newb that they will never get where they want to be if they don't actually get their information from a person who knows what they are doing. Again, the Kmart/Walmart mentality even goes towards how some of these people are learning this trade. Monica: I like your approach as well. Did that with a friend of mine (who by the way makes custom turned pens and other woodworks himself) who wanted to know why it took so long and costs so much for a Sheridan style belt. I sat him down with a 12" strip of leftover belt strap, the transfer pattern and a stylus, then gave him some quick instruction on how to case the leather, and everything else. We never even got to the tooling portion of the day because he learned real quickly how easy that working with intricate patterns/designs WAS NOT. He now never questions anything when it comes to handmade and he has also started incorporating information as how he goes about making the various things that he does and what goes into the process. Nobody questions his pricing anymore either now that they get a bigger picture of what true craftsmanship is. BIGGUNDOCTOR: Wouldn't it be real nice if we could truly get paid for our entire level of expertise, experience, and what it has cost us to achieve these things? I am sure that would put a large number of us in the $100+ per hour category for sure. However, you are absolutely correct on ensuring that you get compensated for your design time and that is one thing that I always have to bring to the attention of other crafters (from all types) when they ask me about how I handle that aspect. Even for a knitter there is always a design element when you are fulfilling a custom item. I ask them how long it took them to plan out where to start the custom elements of the design and how long it took them to ensure that it would come out properly; then I ask them if they factored that into their pricing and they always say, "no, that is part of the process." When I explain to them that it may be part of the process but it is still time associated with the overall creation of the finished product and that they need to get reimbursed for it as it now costs THEM to sell the item (and how much it actually impacts that concept) they look lost. I always try to get them to understand that if something requires extra time to put together the overall order/item then they have to charge for it, otherwise their profit takes the hit because they lost that time as a give away.

Tramp: You hit it dead on. Unless I am making something as a gift for a family member, there are no discounts or "freebies". Leatherwytch: Don't forget to mention that the Versace, Gucci, or Louis Vutton version would also have a price tag of no less than $450 to $500 on it. I do this all of the time when I get an inquiry into making a project that has been "inspired" by one of those big designer names. Once the price is quoted (and it can sometimes be higher than the designer name) I get that deer in the headlights look followed by a comment, "I can get it made cheaper than that by someone else". So, I politely invite them to do so because I am not in the habit of making things that are intended to copy any of those. I also make it very clear that the reason for the price is based on the fact that I know my materials are superior to what they are using and I know what my level of craftsmanship is versus that 5 cents a day kid working in a sweatshop in India or some other country where this is the mass production practice, and that it all comes together to be a much better product. And then I start to work on something else as they pick themselves up off the floor and silently walk away.

Sorry to hear that she balked at it but that is something that many of us face more often than you would think. Unfortunately, there is a huge number of consumers who think that everything should be priced the same as the "mega-mart" stores and they have no clue what really goes into making the items that we do. If you make one for sale on Etsy then list it at the price that it should be, you deserve to get paid for your work. Good luck.

Thanks for the update Bob. I would say, that unless someone is an EXTREME shopaholic (and that would have to be really extreme) that you have just tested the stress of the pocket lining to a level that I don't think many people would achieve in a lifetime. Then again, there is always that one that has to push the limit of what extreme really is. Would be interesting to see where it stands at 10,000 "uses" though.

I wouldn't use it on the keepers that I make, I use nothing thinner than 7 - 8 oz. and at one time was doing nothing but making keepers for old worn out versions on box store cheapo belts. $5.00 a pop though and it doesn't take much to make one.

If you get to your Tandy store (or any other store that actually carries leather, Hobby Lobby even) then you can purchase a bag of scrap that will work for practice and get it at a decent price. And to answer your question about the case on that phone wallet: yes, I did attach a snap on TPU case to the lining leather. I have a supplier in California for those TPU cases where I can get them for the more popular device models for a very good price. There is also an RFID blocking layer that has been added to this one as beginning this year all of the credit/debit cards that carry a logo on them are required to include the new (to us, carried it in Europe on every card I had over 20 years ago) RFID security chips. American Express has incorporated that technology for years and I just happen to have a business card with it so I included that for the new 2015 project line up. You are starting down a path towards a craft that is a very long, but highly rewarding, journey and with it you can release your creativity and pretty much do whatever your mind can visualize. Get some practice in, solicit critique, and have fun with it. Again, welcome to the world of leather.

Another use is for making belt keepers with the stapled assembly.

Welcome to the show. Is this similar to what you are looking to make?

Looks like it turned out pretty nice. How much do you sell these for?

Calvus, where in this country do you live that Tandy doesn't have a store? I thought that they had this entire land buttoned up (well, that is what THEY think anyway). Your rounding it to $115 for this specific person is probably best so if you are good with it, go with it. The $10 per hour rate that I came up with is actually what a large number of new comers to this craft end up thinking is a great rate. Keep in mind (and I know you are aware of this from the IT side of life), a person like myself and several other craftsmen that have been doing this for awhile have spent many years learning the tricks, techniques and materials as well as spending hours and hours refining our skills and creativity. Therefore, we are not a $10 an hour skilled craftsman, we are more along the lines as a $25 to $30 an hour skilled tradesman (and sometimes even higher) that puts our name and heart into everything we do. I am sure that you charge any IT work out at a rate that reflects your education, training, skill, and quality and I am sure that it is nowhere near $10 an hour. Good luck my friend, and keep them coming. Always remember this one important thing, if you make something unique and beautiful for anyone that is going to be shown off to others, be prepared to make even more of them and to expect several different wants from everyone who asks for them.

Depending on how thick your leather is will determine how much, if any, you should skive. For motorcycle gear that has been professionally made you will find that all edges that are exposed to view and are matched up with another edge of leather are typically skived. This gives the bag edges a clean and tapered look that is sometimes not found in low budget commercial production shops. I personally skive the edges where the stitching is going to be on all handbags, shoulder bags, messenger bags, satchel bags and other such items. When dealing with the thinner leathers I tend to let this go as there is so little thickness anyway, I prefer to not create a future failure opportunity. For the thinner leathers I basically mean anything 4 to 5 oz. or less. The only exception with 4 to 5 oz. is when making a phone case or anything that is along that type of project line. I will lightly skive the edges where assembly points will be but then I double stitch those areas to ensure that the durability remains as it should.

I trace around my pattern with it placed on the grain side and using a scratch awl. Just make sure that your trace line remains around the outer edge of the pattern because there are several times when people find that the awl (or whatever they are tracing with) shifts the pattern or even gets underneath it a bit. If you use a pen then I would place the template on the flesh side and carefully trace the outline then.

Well, a third of your total is shipping alone so that doesn't help. Not knowing what stores you have in close proximity, could you have found any of these items at a store that you could physically visit? That would cut out some of that shipping, and maybe even less for a specific item. If you do plan on making other projects then any dyes, materials, etc. that you have left over can actually go to that so, from a business perspective, you only charge for what you use on any specific project. If you don't plan on doing anything else for any period of time then I guess you can try and get your money back for what you have invested. Now on your original post about your time being worth something. In your case, you will only be giving yourself about $23 for your time. I have seen similar belts (not that style but some unique designer styles) which are called handmade but we all know are really machine sewn within a couple of minutes, that sell for $400 and upwards. If you are willing to accept the $23 to compensate yourself then that is what you agree to do. Not knowing if you ever plan on taking this to the next level (i.e. a business concept), I would recommend that you at least keep track of your actual hands-on labor time and charge $10 per hour as a minimum. If you do decide to go to a business model then you will need to reevaluate that of course and charge appropriately. I would also recommend that if you do go more towards a business model that you look at establishing wholesale pricing with your suppliers so that you are saving some big time money. I say this because from what I can calculate from the picture of the first belt, my materials cost (for everything) would be right about $20 (give or take a buck or two). I personally would charge no less than $200 for that belt shown just because it is unique, handmade, and custom and that all makes it worth much more than some off the rack version from any branded designer or other source. More realistically, that belt would most likely be listed in my shop around the $300 mark but the pricing game is one we all struggle with and constantly reevaluate when our costs change. If you get anymore requests for these things (and I can see that you easily could) then you might find yourself looking at how you go forward with you supplies purchasing and costing of project materials. Good luck with this, and I would love to see a picture of the next one.

Did I read that correctly? Materials cost is $77.30? That seems a bit high for that one belt. If you need to order materials for this belt you should only charge your client/customer for the materials used and not everything you order. Any material left over now becomes your remaining inventory for other projects to make money with. I too charge between $25 and $30 per hour and I have an entire formula setup to calculate the rest of the things that need to factored into the overall pricing process. As a hobbyist you still deserve to make something on everything that you make and sell to others, regardless of who they are. And you are correct that you shouldn't charge the client for a tool that you purchase for this specific item, but you should account for the overall cost of it and then spread the cost out over EVERYTHING that you make. Pricing can get quite detailed and very in depth but for your purpose at this point you don't need to go that far. If things get going and you start getting requests for more then you need to change it up and find a pricing model that is more along the lines of a full-scale business style. How did you come to your materials cost? Just kind of curious because I don't see where that number came from based on the image of the belt. Which, by the way, is quite nicely done.

And wouldn't it be nice to still be able to get premium vegetable-tanned leather, 8 to 9 oz., at the $1.47 per square foot that we used to? And that was the price I was paying in the 80's. I also have a collection of vintage magazines but they are from the precursor to the American Horseman variety and all from the 50's. There is some beautiful leatherwork in them and that is why I still have them. I often referred to them back in my saddle making days, great inspiration.

Ding, Ding, Ding! Thank you so much unicornleather for bringing this to light. And the message here is simple: know your materials; know your products; READ the ENTIRE label of any product that comes in a can, a bottle, a jar, a tube, or any other form of packaging so that you know HOW it is supposed to be used and then USE IT THE WAY IT WAS INTENDED. And most important of all (and every label for leather work products says it) "test on a scrap piece of material" to make sure that the product does not create a negative color effect or other damage to your finished project/items. I was taught decades ago (and it still applies today, even more than ever) that if the base material is of a purely natural source and fabrication (which quality vegetable-tanned leather is) then you should only treat it with the same quality of conditioners and oils to ensure that it maintains it's material integrity and lasts for generations to come. And to support this statement I have only to visit my local Historical Society where they have on display a natural cowhide leather hat box that was made by a craftsman in 1846 (it is etched inside the box) which was tanned using the processes of that time (and we pretty much know that we didn't have the "chemical dependency" that we have now) and was conditioned using the fats and oils obtained from the animal. It is in perfect condition today and still shows all of the intricate design elements, inlay work, and craftsmanship of that time, without any loss to material integrity. I have personally been able to put my hands on this item as I have solid relationship with the Society and I can tell you for a fact that this leather is just as conditioned today as it was over 100 years ago and there is no rot or brittleness to any portion of this item. Can you say that in 10 years about anything made today with a lower grade of tanned leather that has been conditioned with anything less than natural? I dare say, "NO".

My prayers are also with you and I know what you went through; it hit me at the beginning of November and didn't clear out until just before Christmas, and mine didn't go as far as yours did. Knocked me to the ground but I eventually came back fighting and I know you are too. Rest well and when you get to full steam, we will see what your mind has created.

Also keep in mind that some of the top sealers that may add over the top of the dyed piece once it dries will remove some color as well, no matter how much you have buffed it. Still, it isn't a bad thing to reduce it and I, like others, only reduce my Fiebing's dyes with the dye reducer that has been blended to match the spirit make-up of the dye. Other substitutes can be used but there is no guarantee that they will be fully compatible with the product. If you start to dilute, always make your blending adjustment and then test on a piece of scrap leather and allow to dry overnight. Once you buff it the next day you can see where you end up and adjust as needed to where you want to be. And always make sure that you note the blend once you find the hue that you want, just like that favorite mixed drink recipe.

Ohio Travel Bags sells them.

That is what we are here for. Thank you for your service as well. Leather working has actually become a popular item for Veterans who are hospitalized to help them cope with the rehabilitation aspects so it does help to be able to immerse yourself into something else and I can safely say that it played a very important role for me. Take care, and we are all here to help.

You can also achieve the look on the second holster by using the block dyeing process. An airbrush finish will give it a more commercial looking appearance (as in the provided image) whereas a block dyed finish will look a bit more "natural" in that the edges where the colors transition will be less "perfect" looking (for lack of a better term). It just give a more handmade/hand finished look to it than you get with mechanical applications. I do agree though that the first holster appears to have been dyed (full coverage) with the lighter color and then either "rag dragged" or "paint brush dragged) with the darker color to give it that effect. It does look sharp though.

As camano ridge said, work on getting those holes cleaner and improving your edge finishing and you will be well on your way to making a finer finished product. And he is also correct on the sharpening of your awl (and all other cutting/punching tools that you use) to ensure that you get the cleanest holes/lines possible. It makes a world of difference. I too served in the military, U.S. Army 1981 to 2006, and having been deployed around the world more than once, I understand how it is to readjust and deal with the issues associated with the duties performed (Sapper, Ranger, et al from the advanced levels). I have also been working with leather since I was 8 years old and one thing I always did was have some basic tools with me and have some scrap leather on hand just to have a different avenue with which to occupy my mind when the downtime came (and for me that was not often). Working with leather has probably been the only thing in my life that has helped me to maintain my personal sanity and remain focused on the fact that there is still much more to life. We can not make the ghosts of missions past go away but we can tell them to take a back seat and we might get back to them later. Keep at it and you will be able to achieve whatever goal you set for yourself. And most important of all, use this community to gain as much information, direction, and education as you can as there are several highly skilled and experienced Artisans here. I am looking forward to seeing more of your works as you progress.

And can you imagine what the price per square foot will be then? Indeed scary, in all aspects.

I agree with what byggyns said about choosing your initial direction. It used to be that we all learned the basics of tooling first (believe it or not, simple stamping was not the entry level) and we pretty much refined our skills while making finished products from pre-packaged kits. For those of us who continued to pursue the "expert" level we then started getting into the design aspect as it would give us that unique niche that everyone is looking for (and that also sets us apart from the rest). I have been working leather for over 40 years, received my initial education from the Masters of the time, have worked saddlery and everything else on both sides, and can also reiterate that you will find achieving "expert" status is long down the road and really only means that you can pretty much do anything and with a high level of comfort and confidence but you will always be learning and will never know it all. Good luck in your new direction of life and use the resources and experiences of those within this forum to help you; we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience contained within this community and it will make your journey much easier than if you were to try and go it alone.

I believe that Tandy actually recommends that you apply the Gel-Antique to damp leather and that you apply it with a damp applicator. Now, this does result in the color being a bit darker but the Gel-Antique's already go on much darker than a traditional Antique finish anyway. They work more like an antique stain versus an antique finish (just compare the color penetration and coverage to that of Fiebing's Antique stains and their Antique Paste finish, drastically different). You will not negatively impact your tooling unless you over wet your leather. When I did try out the Eco-Flo products I allowed my leather to get to the barely damp state after I had finished my tooling and then applied the Gel-Antique with a damp sponge and it went on very even; I just didn't like how dark it comes out as I am looking for an Antiqued finish and not a stained finish. I also dried it on dried leather and that was a blotchy nightmare (which several people have said repeatedly). I gave them a shot and went back to the product line that I had been using since I started leatherwork as I knew exactly what to expect from it in all situations and it gave me the true Antiqued finish that I was looking for. We all have our own preferences and methods of doing things and this is mine.