JLSleather

Such is the process these days. Don't fix the problem... just market to "new guys" who don't know the difference. Get 'em early, convince them that the poop they're chewing is good for you Of course, it's a matter of time. You use a "name" to sell your poop, pretty soon you've got poop on the name.

I ordered leather from Weaver ONCE. I will not do it again. I did not return it, didn't even contact them to complain about it. What I got was advertised as Herman Oak's better grade, but the grain side was not good, and the flesh side was far worse. There was clearly a splitter problem -- the entire back side looked like that washboard you find on the highway when you're coming up on a stop. Now, some are going to say "well, how can they fix the problem if you don't let them know?". This - clearly - is ridiculous. They CLAIM to know leather. So one of these things is happening: They really DON'T know leather, and had no idea what they were sending me was below acceptable. OR They really DO know leather, but thought I DON'T know the difference. Sadly, this has become widespread... send out the dregs and if the customer doesn't complain you "got away with it". OR They really DO know leather, and they didn't care if I knew the difference or not. Send it out, and if he sends it back we'll send a different piece. If he's out a week or two, not our problem. OR They really DO know leather, but can't be bothered to either check what they are sending out, or train their help to check it. Regardless of the reason, I do not object to PAYING premium price as long as I'm GETTING premium stuff. Fortunately, I only ordered a couple of sides, kind of test the water to see what they stock. Now that I know, I avoid them. NOTE: What I got could have easily been SPLIT AGAIN once the splitter was adjusted, they could have simply sold it as a lighter weight. They'd only be out the time to split it. But they didn't.

Google will show you a bunch of steel die benders. Honestly, it wouldn't be cost effective for me to go through all of that. Even if i already had a cutter, and the proper welding equip, and the bending equip, and the space to put all of that, ... the time I save cutting with the dies would be negated by teh time I spent making the dies. I'd have to be making DOZENS of each item to make it worth all of that. I'm not trying to talk anybody into OR out of making what they want to make. But I have dies that work great, made by others while I was earning money with something else, at a cost that pays for the die on the second or third cut.

Don't remember where I've seen those sold that way. Didn't bookmark it cuz I didn't want 'em that way. 1 person's "line 24" is not like the next, so parts from one place may not mate well with parts from another place.

Wait.. you LIVE in St Louis, home of Hermann Oak, and you shop Tandy?@!

over here we call those mexican restaurants

Solid brass? At the shop, we had BINS full of those.. used for short-run bushings... for about the price of the shipping on that one

Yup, looked good. Did you not get my email?

I'm fixin'a just wait 'n' borrah yers

1/4" aes threads are generally 20 or 28 tpi. Maybe an M7x1? (24 pitch is .041")

Boy, do I know that one! I offer a "template" belt, made from teh same thickness of leather the "real" one will be made from. I sewed it with half a dozen colors of various threads, at 5, 6, 7, and 8 stitches per inch. SURELY you can pick one you like from that.. since you can see the ACTUAL THREAD that will be used. People didn't want to return it, so I started charging $10. That doesn't pay for the leather, much less the shipping (shipping is $8.20 now) but it does tend to weed out some of the "talkers". Deal is, you pay $10 for the measuring "tape", and when you order the belt I"ll take the $10 off the price of the new belt. So I'm still out $20 (leather and shipping) and a bit of time, but it's clear the belt size you want. Never had one order the wrong size since I started that. But I HAVE had people say "no, no - not necessary, I understand you don't take returns on tooled belts and THAT IS THE SIZE I want". Then, on TWO occasions, someone who REFUSED to take the "measure" belt then contacted me to say the belt they ordered didn't fit. The first one I took it back anyway, gave a full refund, and when the belt came back I cut it into 4 pieces and threw it in the trash. No, ma'am, I would NOT like to make you another belt "now that you know". Thanks anyway. Cutting that belt up was basically so I would never forget to not do that again. If you don't order the "measure" belt, then sizing issues are YOUR fault and YOUR responsibility. If it's a plain black, or brown, or tan, whatever.. send it back without muckin' it up and I'll send you a different one for the cost of the shipping. Tooled, or otherwise customized, and it's yours - so let's do it right the first time. PANTS SIZE? I have jeans that say 34 I can't get on any more. AND I also have jeans that say 34 that would drop off if I don't wear a belt (the belt is NOT a 34). The PANTS SIZE is exactly the size you DON"T need. Anybody ever see a piece of PVC pipe? Get the 3". IT's 3". Says 3" right one it. Now, put another pipe over that. Still want to say you need 3"?

Maybe that's her exercise plan.. step on the scale, step off the scale, step on the scale... * Women SO concerned about what the scale says. Unless I'm scheduled for a weigh in for the prize fight - which isn't likely - I aint concerned with a few lbs one way or the other. * Note it's not just women, either. Men have those "vanity size" clothes too. Hey, Jeff - I need a 32 belt. Sure ya do ...

What the .. ?@!@$#@! iN A search for recipes, I found a bunch of folks supposedly sharing what they eat to stay healthy. One gal (or according to this thread, perhaps one them DUDES who says its a girl?@!) records her weight loss "progress" .. in TENTHS OF A POUND. What is that? I got a drink of water, better hit the scales ...

Entire freakin' planet is insane. Slaughter in NZ is just up the road from where the wench wife is from. She has family living all around there and a niece was literally across the road when the shooting began. 49 people killed. That isn't NUTS enough? One of the shooters claimed to be upset about 'immigration". Why is that NUTS? Because he's NOT FROM the country where he did the shooting (he's an immigrant). JUST AS NUTS? The NZ govt wants "stricter" gun laws. ARE they suggesting that these killers were FOLLOWING EXISTING LAW? If they were breaking existing law, what is the benefit of writing more? What .. the NEW law would stop that? EVEN MORE NUTS? A horde of liberals - vacuous as ever - take to twitter to SOMEHOW try to attribute blame to Donald Trump. And the rest of the planet, ... Well, everybody thinks "somebody" should "do something".

Awesome. Even better --- you gained some experience AND you honestly assessed the outcome. Both are important. You planned --- BIG points here. Seeing where you want to go is BIG. And a desired outcome in mind. You certainly are making progress already

I got this leather from W/C. BEAUTIFUL leather. If they were still sending this, I'd still be buying it.

Where did you see the choice to keep or return? Actually, I'm really thinking (though I couldn't prove it, and what would be the point?) that BECAUSE I didn't return some of that is the reason they thought it was acceptable to send me MORE SUBSTANDARD stuff (but bill me for top shelf). I called half a dozen times. One guy told me he would personally go "on the floor" and check the leather. The receipt showed up marked "request minimal markings and gauge thickness", but nobody did - obviously. At this point, I no longer wish to "discuss". I do not want a "discount" on the low-rent stuff. If you can't send me great leather, just SAY that, and I'll leave you alone. But I'm not getting strung along because the next one MIGHT be better. EITHER they don't have leather better than this (so I don't want it) or they do have better leather but sent me this anyway (so I dont want it). Either way, I don't want it. Now, this is a forum thread about suppliers, so I posted my position on the subject. And it's about a supplier that I have long recommended to others. But I'm not trying to "persuade" anybody in or out of anything. You want to order there, have at it. You get a better "deal', congratulations. As for me, what I've been getting is not what I've been paying, in spite of maybe 6 or 8 calls about exactly that. I'd like to say it isn't about the money, but at least partly it is. EVEN if I won the lottery tomorrow, I still. wouldn't be interested in tearing up $1000 just because I could. And THERE is the thing. I don't like to apologize. And I REALLY SUCK at apologizing for what isn't my fault. If you cashed the check, then SEND WHAT I ORDERED. That SHOULD be my customer's position, and it SHOULD be my position to my suppliers. I talked with another guy yesterday, told him it would kick his order back on the calendar and he can have a refund if he prefers that. Through no fault of mine. MIGHT be different if I was sitting with no leather, ordered one skin and "hoped" it would be "okay". But I'm talking about multiple hides, multiple times. You are a leather supplier. You claim to know good leather from bad. So when I pay top dollar and ask for the good stuff, clean and firm - DO YOU REALLY need me to tell you that entire hides that won't let you cut ONE clean belt is not acceptable? Hey, I "get" it.. I'm not big enough (volume) to warrant ACTUALLY SENDING what you said you have, and what I specifically asked (and paid) for. Fair enough. No trouble.. just have to make an adjustment. A WORD ABOUT CUSTOMER SERVICE Few years back, I got a bad steak at a restaurant. Turned into quite a spectacle. So I won't eat there any more, and this was a place we used to eat quite a bit. BUT COMPOUND that, months later my buddy passed me, said he was on the way to lunch there and come with him. I said I'll come have coffee, but I'm not eating there. Got seated, ordered, and I ordered coffee. Buddy says just order what you want, I'm buying, it's on me. I said I'll have coffee. Shorten the story, when they brought his food I could smell it was something wrong. He's laughing, poking fun, doesn't believe that they gave me bad food and I was telling stories. Okay, don't believe me - suit yourself. Minutes later, first mouth full of what was supposed to be pork sausage and he's running in the bathroom, and even across the restaurant with the door closed we can hear him in there puking. And puking. And puking. Waitress comes by, goofy smile, is everything okay... uh, no - this pork is ROTTED. She takes the plate and leaves - me 'n'' that cute girl with me appreciate that. A few minutes later, Richard is back, doesn't look so good, and he KNOWS I'm about to say "what's a matter, buddy? food wasn't good? Cmon, eat up.. you KNOW they wouldn't serve bad food... get the sausage..." AND I'm gonna lay it on THICK. He KNOWS he gonna pay for his little jokes a while ago. Waitress comes back, SAME PLATE, says she talked to the manager and since he wasn't happy his meal today would be FREE. Richard ran for the toilet again, and Molly and I just stared.. while I tried to explain to the "customer service" girl that I DON"T THINK HE WANTS IT. Discounted poop? Still poop.

I pretty much expect prices to change (just up, not really down ). But you know what I want. It hasn't changed. I want THE best there is. And I'm willing to pay the top shelf price. But I don't pay for pretty speeches and videos - you don't get top price for ... anything else. There have been ads for years... scars and brands.... charm and character... Yeah, well - send me the less charming stuff and we'll both be happy (I'm letting you keep the most charming, right?). In fact, anybody thinks their leather with no marks on it isn't "charming", you let me know and we'll talk price. I love leather that is NOT "charming" Wait.. I thought they said grade has nothing to do with quality?@! So they're saying that if I order "A" grade, I may not get the same "grade" I got last time I ordered "A" grade, even though I'm paying the same price? "GRADE" is a standard. It's a ruler. Either the leather measures up, or it doesn't. Bunch of guys under 5' tall standing together, you can't LEGITIMATELY point to the tallest one and say he's tall. He's not. He's the tallest "of what we have to offer at this time". But he's not tall. Maybe just admit that you don't have any "tall" in stock, and offer to sell me what you have. I won't take it, because I'm shopping for the TALL stuff on the top shelf, but I wouldn't fault you for honestly offering what you have. Seriously, I don't know why people get sucked into that BULL. Long as I started all this, let's go on a bit. How many of you would order (and pay for) a 12" sandwich, and be okay with it when they brought you a 10" one? Hey, it's the longest one we had. Still charging you for the 12" though. Well, yes - we know this isn't first class that you asked (and paid) for. Still, it's the best seat we have in coach, so .... today it's "A" grade. True, this car has 200,000 miles on it, but that's less than some other cars on the lot, so this is "A" grade. Hey, I ordered the Lexus! Well, yes we know - but this taurus was the best we have right now, so we're sending that instead (then why am I paying for the Lexus?) Should we continue? Is there anybody still NOT seeing how ridiculous that is? Great. Other side of the coin then ... for those who claim they want that leather with marks, wrinkles, etc. It's a "natural product" after all. Hey, can you knock some bruises in that apple before I buy it? No, don't really want that truck. I don't like to have to put the dents and scratches in myself. Maybe if it was rolled on its side first ... No, sir, really not interested in dating your daughter. She hasn't dated nearly enough other fellas. Honestly, I must have more discerning customers. I have never once been asked to send the stuff with some scratches on it. Or some fat wrinkles. Never had somebody request an item that 'almost' fits, or with edges not trimmed. OR, maybe they're not discerning at all - could be they just appreciate the honesty, knowing they'll get what they asked (and paid) for -- not something else and a story about "a natural product, and .... the best on hand right now". Okay .. I didn't intend to get this long about it, but that's just goin' in the blog. _______________________________ By the way.. I recently ordered a "dummy gun" for the new-ish Glock 43x. About 5 seconds with a caliper will show that holsters molded with that WAY UNDERSIZE mold aren't going to even take the Glock 43x. I complained, and they took it back, full refund. Final outcome, I'm out $8.20, a week, and still need a Glock 43x mold. Sound like good business? Or sound like I threw away $8.20 and loaned somebody $60? Ah.. know what? Let's end it on a funny note. My friend Mary says her husband suggested they go on a diet "together". Mary said he's dreaming - when she says she's gonna eat "low fat", she means she's gonna be sitting down when she eats it That's funny, but still just 'marketing spin' ...

That's FANTASTIC. I've seen a lot of leather work - and that certainly is at least one of the best I've seen.

It's just not true that grades don't concern quality. I "get" what that video is talking about... same cow skins soaked in the same chems. But there is leather that is clean and firm, and leather that is not. That video is marketing spin, aimed at those who really do not know. This stuff from W/C is always firm... nothing "smooshy" about it. But the clean part has been falling off BADLY. I know its cow leather and there's going to be a mark. But ... there's a limit to what is acceptable.

Well, yeah, "should". But after multiple conversations and thousands of dollars, I surrender.

What'd ya buy? I was talking about pre-dyed skirting leather. I got some less than stellar english bridle too, but I don't order enough of that to make broad statements about it. I SUPPOSE (guess) their policy is to take it back if you're not happy, but I've never returned any so wouldn't really know. In fact, maybe that's the problem.. if I didn't return it when it started south, maybe somebody decided I didn't know any better and they could just send me ANYTHING laying around?

Nah, nothing to "do about it". I'm not returning it, doing all that mail tag. I'll make enough on the clean sections to pay back what I spent on it, and call Hermann Oak.

Well, I would not have thought it would ever happen - the day I say something "disparaging" about wickett / craig leather. I'm not the only one who has noticed and commented on a declining quality on the leather coming out of there. I kept "one more chance" ing them because they have in the past sent me some STUNNING leathers. But at this point, I think I need to give them some space for a while. Last batch of about $1,000 is every bit of 50% unusable. The one before that wasn't much better. One whole side of what is "called" the top shelf stuff has vertical wrinkles (like stretch marks) all along the hide -- meaning that it would not be possible to cut even a single belt from it without those marks. NOW, I'm not "eating" the cost, since it all gets paid for in the end, but it doesn't do much for MY margins. If I can't cut projects from between the "boogers" so my work doesn't have them, then it's landfill material. At this stage, I remember that I am not their employee or their distributor. Not my responsibility to see that they sell leather (though I certainly have recommended them multiple times in the past). I am not ignorant or uneducated about what good leather is supposed to look like. But either they think I won't know the difference, or perhaps they simply don't HAVE the same quality they used to provide (?). I'm more than a little bent about it this time, as calls to them to discuss it have not proved beneficial. Sorry isn't worth much if you send the same thing again...

What are you calling "analine" leather? That's not actually a "type" of leather. Likely what you have is chrome tanned. To know what to make with it, we would need to know the type of leather you have and its approximate thickness.