bruce johnson

Changing gears from trees here. Randy's post on the Hamley saddle and his comment about "Someone took a lot of time to form those swells" got me thinking. I had an old guy talk me through it several years ago about covering some swell forks without welts. I took a class from Jesse Smith last year at Wickenburg, and he had some more tricks that have helped. I have still been beaten by some, and then gone ahead and welted them. I really don't have anything against welts. I think mine turn out well enough, but just don't like to do them if I don't have to. I would like this to kind of go in a few directions. What kind of swells can you more consistanly not welt? Particular selection of leather? Skiving or casing tips? Forming and compressing tips? If you do welt, do you use a single welt, folded welt, or blind stitch? Laces instead of a welt? Welts to the front, down the sides, or pulled to the rear? Tips and tricks are always appreciated.

Steve, Bucking roll are an "add-on" for slick fork saddles. The swells (part of the saddle the horn attaches to) in a swell fork saddle sticks out a little on both sides. It serves a couple funstions. It gives you something to kind of lean into when your are standing up and forward leaning out to rope. Some swell patterns allow you to get your legs underneath them to secure if a horse goes to bucking. I look on them as a sefety valve. If I am loose and going forward and my horse stops short, I want something to stop me before the saddle horn does. Human anatomical considerations apply. Swell fork saddles come in a bunch of different styles, but are all characterized by having these "swells" sticking out to the sides a little. Slick fork saddles don't have this. Originally all saddles were slick fork, being that the swells or forks were really made from the forks of tree branches. At some point someone tied a jacket across the front to inhibit his forward movement. In the later 1800s, a guy developed bucking rolls, little add-on pads that went on each side of the fork. A further development was swell forks - originally reported to be a croquet ball sawed in half and each half screwed into the slick fork - adding swells. Then forks were actually made with a swell pattern and no longer carved from tree forks, and the two camps of though divided into what we have today - the swell fork guys and slick fork fans. It used to be more regional. Swell fork most places. The slick forks kept popularity in the great basin and Northwest and areas influenced by them. Now with guys moving around, horse training clinicians riding slick forks and selling them, it is less defined. Bucking rolls were stuffed with hair, wool clippings, some guys use synthetics, etc. though a flap in the bottom. Anything to pack in there and give shape. It takes a while to pack in there, some packing then mashes down in use and they need more stuffing or they get raggy. If these foam inserts work as expected, you just build your rolls around the foam core and you are done. To compare, swell forks are more solid, less forgiving when you smack into them. Bucking rolls are softer, but not as solid to lay into. I am attaching a picture of a moderate swell fork saddle, the one with no bucking rolls. The other is a slickfork with rolls, you can see where they attach, and kind of what they do.

I don't much use Xray film to glue to in an effort to prevent stretch while tooling. I do use it a fair amount for stiffeners for some things. It works well to sandwich between a soft out layer and liner for things like business card cases and checkbooks. Adds stiffness without bulk. Just rough up both sides with coarse sandpaper and cement in place. I mostly use this for exotics without much body or chap leather. Warning - I told one guy about this and he used it in the entire piece. You just want to it to stiffen the sides. Use patches on both sides and leave the fold area open. Otherwise it won't fold. For some padded or plugged inlays, I use it as a backer. Cement the padding and the inlay leather down to the Xray film. Secure it with binder clips, tape, whatever and sew around the inlay. Then I trim the excess film off the back, and then glue in a liner and edge stitch the liner in place. It makes a cleaner look inside than stitching the inlay in place through the liner.

Most all my cutting patterns are made from printer's press blankets. I get them from a local print shop across the alley. They are used on offset presses. One side is rubberized, and the backing is a durable cloth. The rubber side down doesn't slide around on the leather. Toss a bench anvil or shotbag on it and it stays put. They have enough body to run a knife right along the edge or not move with a tracing stylus. I can write things on a the cloth side with a Sharpie. I can ID what it is, what gusset and zipper length are needed, handle size, etc. I can rivet pieces together for longer things like back cinches. It sews on my machines. I have sewed up trial pieces and mailed it to guys as test patterns. I did a over the saddle horn cordless microphone holder for a mounted rodeo announcer, and it had to be just right. That made life easier. Mock up cell phone patterns are easier, too. They cut with knives or heavy scissors. I originally got the idea from Bill Gomer's video. He made saddle seat patterns from them. I make all my patterns from it. These are not cheap new, over $100 for some sizes I am told. When they start to wear out, they toss them. My guys clean them with solvent before they give them to me. Every so often I find a stack of them in the back of my truck at work. They also work for drawer and tool box liners.

Randy, I have an old Hamley catalog reprint along with shreds of a real one, and saddle E203 is the Daisy Mae, as Ronny said. The picture they show in the catalog has a 12 or 13 petal flower used. I am sure they could have used whatever flower a customer wanted. They also show other saddle models with 7 petaled flowers in that pattern, and a five petal with the squarish tips. That "daisy basket" pattern was pretty commonly used back then by several makers. I would suspect from the numbering that it is an old McMillen stamp too. The border stamp sure likes a commonly used McMillen pattern (want to say a #328). I have a couple old stamps that were reported to be McMillens and matched up to catalog impressions, but no numbers. Not sure if any McMillen stamps were ever numbered themselves. Regarding the "triangle" tree. At least in the 1942 reprint, Hamley's still had their own tree shop. Someone with more knowledge than me knows, but I am recalling that Duff Severe went to work for the saddle shop and his brother went to work in the tree shop after the war. The catalog shows the E203 as being built on the Improved Association tree. But they have a saddle model called the New "Triangle". It was model #580X. The Firefly, was model F616 and was built on the "regular triangle tree". These trees both had the fork of the low form-fitter with a 14" swell. The difference between these two "triangle" models was the cantle dish and slope. The picture of yours looks to me all in the world like their Association. The triangle saddles pictured have the typical undercut swells and backsweep of their form-fitter swells, and welted swell covers. Some of the improved Assoc models they show were welted, and some weren't. It would take someone better than me to do a swell cover on a form-fitter and not welt it. Doesn't look like yours is welted. I'll bet you breakfast yours is an Improved Association tree.

Randy, Call up Hamley's. They have the records. Not sure if they still do, but they used to have a place on the website to look a saddle up by the numbers. Last year I bought a Hamley association saddle hull from "fleabitpokey" on the forum here. When she brought it down to me, she had done the homework. They had sent her a copy of the original order form, the receipt when done, and a certificate of authenticity. It was from the late 20s. Pretty cool. Eventually I am going to retore it for the museum display. We don't have one from Hamley's on display. Yeah, the trees in some of these old ones are good. The one in my Hamley looks good, as does my great-grandfather's Duhamel saddle, and an old Porter I have. I am restoring an old Rowell right now that doesn't have half as good a tree as any of those.

Tracy, We are starting to sell them in our local cowboy museum (www.oakdalecowboymuseum.org). I had to pay retail to support the cause, but you can't wholesale outfit your wife all the time. The info on the jewelry is at www.saddlebaroncollection.com.

This is sort of in the spirit of leatherwork. I am thinking that most leatherworker's wives wouldn't mind a set of these for her Valentine's Day. I mean you can only make so many purses, right? She already got one of Ryan Cope's wife's saddle blankets for Christmas. Keep a secret, you are seeing them before her. I am thinking this will be a bigger hit than the clicker dies I got her a couple years ago.

Art, Something like $12.95 per set in low number quantities, $7.00 for the pattern pack. He is going to make a DVD to show how also. I ordered a couple sets Monday, and should have them today. I'll let you know.

Janet, It looks to me to be pigskin or an embossed pig pattern on cowhide. Some of the places that stock topgrain pig in colors for garments could help you out. Not sure what TLF carries, but places like HideHouse could be a source too.

Harvey, Clay is right. Probably better check with David and see if you are still on the list. You may be moved to platitudes unbound.

Andrew, To jump in here on the Alder, I used to have a 205. It is a good machine and I am sure would sew with bullet holes after a nuclear holocaust. That said it had no needle guide or center foot, and the feed dog hole was a fairly small target for a needle capable of sewing 346 to hit. It would sew doubled 9 oz latigo reins all day. It would sew new saddle skirts and normal back cinches all day. I made the mistake of building some wide calf roping back cinches based on an old style I used. I used doubled skirting for the bodies, and 10/11 oz for the tunnel loops. The ropers loved them because they are dang sure stout. The top side stitches looked fine. The bottom stitches due to needle deflection wiggled all over and missed the bottom groove in random patterns when it hit the 3 layers. If the needle missed the feeddog hole and snapped, it was pretty impressive. Tended to skip on some relining of skirts due to needles holes not quite matchining up in the skirts/plugs. Needle deflection was an issue with it. When I got my Pro 2000, the bottom stitches match the top, and I don't even think about it. The 205 is now side seaming boots in Oregon. I think 3/4" would be a real generous allowance for the Adler I had. I know a guy who had a Sewmo 205-370 clone, and that was his experience too. Good up to 1/2" and then it is a push.

My granite actually does have the guy's picture photo etched on it, and the dates. They broke a corner when they reset it. It is kind of eerie to see him smiling there, and I pound on the bottom side (smooth, but unpolished and will stay that way). Another source for granite I recently found was the local Habitat for Humanity outlet. Contractors donate leftovers and scratch and dent stuff. Basically a thrift store for building materials, and they have several pieces of granite countertop. It was around $3 a square foot as I recall.

Bronc, Most of what I have on Newton Porter is at home. Originally the shop was in Texas. Moved to Phoenix where most of the reputation was built. A pretty famous old shop, and some refer to the style of carving they did as the "Porter" style, others call it Arizona style. A lot of the big names in leather carving from the middle part of the last century cut leather at Porters. I am not sure when the shop closed. I have an old geometric stamped Porter saddle that while cute, is not high end collectible. Porters were pretty fanatical about maker's marking their saddles. It is marked in 5 places. I also have an unmarked floral stamped saddle can be matched to one of Porter's standards too. Probably an ex-employee made it. The geometric was appraised at about $1100-1200, which I thought was pretty generous. The unmarked floral saddle the same or a bit more due to the silver on it, which is older than the saddle. Those old quilted saddles were before my time. I am not sure of the whole time frame, but have seen them listed in old Western Horseman ads from the early or mid 60s. Not sure the seat repair helped the value any.

I use the SS nails too. A local big hardware store used to have a pretty complete line of SS nails, but was bought out and dropped them. I get them now from Sheridan Leather Outfitters. They sell SS nails by the pound. I have ring shank and twistshanks in a couple lengths, and am thinking I still have some smooth ones left over too. Any other sources I found were 5 or 10# minimums.

Marlon, My shop is a long single car garage - concrete floor. I like the concrete under the sewing machine for oil drips. I like concrete at my tooling area, so my chair can roll easily. Around the work bench and cutting table I put down those anti-fatigue mat squares from the building supplier/big home improvement places. They are squares that interlock. Makes a nice surface to stand on, and forgiving for blade tools that might fall.

I had two off forum questions yesterday, and another this morning on my comparison of ebay and real auctions. First off on consignments. Locally, feed and tack stores generally charge a 10% fee at minimum for items like a used saddle. Some charge a 15% fee on saddles, and "showcased" new items like a tooled purse or whatever - 25%. Realize that they are selling a line of American West or Montana, and these handmade items are competing items with higher margin items for them. Auction sales commisions may vary a little but not much. Most used tack sells with a commission of 15-20% on saddles, and may be 25-30% on miscellaneous items. It depends on the sale. Some of the miscellaneous household auction/antique auctions are about 25%. Some of the slightly higher end sales might charge a catalog fee also, to have a better item listed, that varies from $10-25. I am not sure what the high end western collectible auction houses like High Noon and the Cody auction have for seller fees. Pretty safe assumption it isn't 10%. A "buyers Premium" is basically an auction commission charged to the buyer based on final bid. It is a percentage. For instance if I paid $650 for a saddle, and the buyers premium is 10%, I pay $650 plus $65 bp, or $715. Some premiums are a higher percentage. It is basically another way for the auction company to recoup expenses and make a profit. Some of the sales with high production expenses like Cody and High Noon, most all art auctions, some antique and car auctions do this. Pretty standard deal with a lot of auction companies. It allows the auction whose expenses may be more than the listing fee or sales commission charged to be profitable. Some of the fixed costs could potentially be in the range of 35% of sales prices. Not many sellers want to give 1/3 away, but will allow a 20% commission, and with a 15% buyers premium, the auction company comes out. The American way - profit, it is what keeps us all in business.

Elton, Very cool. I like the pattern too. Nice workmanship, and those will light up an arena for sure.

Troy, Welcome to our little corner of the world. Your reputation precedes you here. Glad to have you aboard, and I am looking forward to seeing more of your work. Don't worry about the computer skills, you've got the rest of it goin'.....

Dink, I thought I replied to this earlier, but appears that my dog ate the homework. My clutch motors have had a switch to reverse the direction of rotation. If you just swap ends and don't change the rotation, I would suspect the feedwheel would be going in reverse.

I have been satisfied with ebay as a buyer and seller. As a buyer, the automatic bidding takes the time and emotion factor out of it for me. I set my max and let it roll. I have sold a few used saddles, and some other things on ebay. The sellers fees charged even on the higher dollar stuff was way less than comparable commission rates at any auctions I have been around, or consignment fees at local feedstores. Ebay really doesn't do or allow things that aren't done at any other auction, except they haven't started charging buyers premiums yet.

Marlon, I don't use mine as cutting tools. I use them to define a crease or to burnish cut lines. I don't want them to cut any deeper. That said, every maker seems to make them a little different in cross ection profile. Most of my oldies are a rounded profile, much like a cross section of a really dull round knife. The newer Osbornes are more like a thicker chisel profile that comes to a dull point.They make v groove in wet leather. I got one from Jeremiah Watt that was thinner stock, but had a definite kind of sharp edge that would cut if you applied much pressure. I rounded that over, and like it pretty well now. The oldies will lay open a cut line a little more than the thinner stock one from Jeremiah. I do have a tiny old Gomph that makes a narrow little channel.

Dink, Bob Brenner's book is called something like "How to Determine Prices for the Saddlemaker and Leather Worker". He advertises it in the classifieds of LCSJ and Shoptalk still I think. Most profitable $40 I ever spent. Pretty sure that Shoptalk has it in their book section too. Basically it tells you how to figure overhead, and what goes into that. Then figuring an hourly wage, and combining them to determine a shop rate. Then he discusses markup and profits on materials. The principles are pretty solid and applicable. Some people get hung up on his actual prices and miss the point of how he gets to them. When I got my business license, I got a years worth of advice from a retired business owner/advisor through a local businessman's organization. He read my copy of Bob's book, bought one for himself, and recommended it to some other "handwork" customers to use a model. I don't figure everything exactly like he does, but it was a good guideline to get started.

It is custom. Tandy used to have an order from for those custom stamps, made by someone else. My makers stamp is exactly like that. A long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Tandy had what they called the Tandy College of Leather Arts. A nifty little program. You completed modules on different things - case making, figure carving, saddlery, clothing, carving, lacing, braiding, hand sewing, etc. For evey group of modules you completed, you got moved up into another level. Once you reached ""masters", you were given wholesale prices for life, and other rights and benefits. The local Tandy I dealt with gave you your makers stamp once you completed the second level. I don't think that was universal, but the local store did it. They figured you had purchased enough materials to complete to that level, you had earned it. I really enjoyed that program. It made you do things you probably wouldn't have (like figure carving that deer 6 times to get one good enough to pass). You found out what you were good at, what you weren't, and what you liked to do. I got a lot of good instruction, Peter Main came and did the embossing class. A good program.

JW, After doing my first plate probably 5 years ago, I don't go back except on repairs or for a specific purpose. I like them, and find at least how I was taught to put them in, no significant issues with bulk. I see some guys who have used a deep skirt pattern. They make a relatively shallow plate pattern and the ring is on top of the skirt. That looks bulky, and I am sure is not traditional (i.e. "dropped plate rigging"). A shallower skirt pattern or butterfly pattern skirt, and the rigging dropping below that is less bulky. Using good leather, and longer tapered skives on the liner can help with the bulk issue. I am attaching a pic of my wife's saddle. It has little shallower skirts, and the plate drops off the skirts. I have got on and schooled quite a bit in this saddle, and I really couldn't have told you there was a plate rigging in it. Where I hit with my legs and feet is below the rigging. After you put a few plates in, and then go back and do a dee ring rigging, the dee set up looks pretty anemic.