bruce johnson

Barra, I think the Stohlman books are the most complete, and Lord knows, hundreds of saddles have been made using them as the only guide. That said, I like your line "differing opinions are what makes the world go round". That is the gist of why we are here. I have the Stohlman books and do find them a good resource. My "go to" book now and for the last several years is Harry Adams' book "Saddle Makers Shop Manual". Harry is deceased and his daughter was still selling it last I heard. I am sorry I don't have the contact info handy, but someone can come up with it I am sure. This book goes through making a Wade saddle in the first section. The second section covers variations - swell forks, different seats, riggings, horn covering techniques, etc. My favorite part is that he shows you how to make patterns "on the fly". It is a notebook binder style book. I finally at the suggestion of a friend put each page in a pocket page protector to preserve the pages. I agree with you on the Yates' books. Some good tips, techniques not really showed all that well in other sources, but a little sparse. They are an OK value for the money. I think about $30-40 gets them both from ShopTalk. Johns Hopper's book Cowboy Complete Saddlemaking is almost a cult classic. Snapped up on ebay for prices more than the value of the info to me. There is a section on accessory items in the back (bucking rolls, saddlebags, hobbles, halters, etc) that is pretty good. Hard to find and pricey when you do. If I had to only have a couple - they would be Harry Adams first and Stohlmans second if I had done some saddles before. If I hadn't built many, the order would be reversed. Either way I guess, a person would want both. The others are OK, mostly out of print, and the info is either sparse or "dated". Bruce Johnson

Well, we might as well not leave the writers out here. Let's start a thread on saddlemaking books too- Stohlman, Harry Adams, John Hopper, John Beck, Bob Likewise, etc. Bruce

OK, now that we have some starts, I will share my views of what I have. Dusty Johnson - very basic. You will learn to put leather on a tree. As Greg said, not accepted techniques for many of the good handmakers, but it is a start. Probably the lowest price. His chap making and holster videos I think are better. Bruce Cheaney - I have the cutting saddle and roping saddle tapes. Bruce builds with a minimal amount of tools. I think you could turn him loose at Ace Hardware with $100 and he would have all he needs. His drawdown is made from plumbing pipe sections and fittings. Most of the cutting is done with a pocket knife, and he uses a smooth faced hammer. A guy probably only needs one of his three different types of saddles. Lots of overlap in building techniques, other than seats. Some pretty good ideas, but a few things that have me wondering why he did "that", without explanation. Priced about $200 per set. Bill Gomer - A fair amount of information. Pretty good production, and he tells enough stories to keep it light. Quite a few things that I learned from, and have done on everything since (pattern material for instance). Priced under $100. Worth having, especially for early on building. Jeremiah Watt - My favorite as of now. Lots of techniques from a handmaker. Lots of "this is why I do it this way". Some of the Jeremiah philsophy along the way, and commercials! I didn't see many of the advertised items in Jeremiah's shop but what the heck. Lots of the little finese things that separate the good guy from the average. He also has a tape set on floral carving and layout. I like that set also. Priced about $400 for the saddlemaking, and about $180 for the carving set. You probably have some of his tools, buy his tapes (now all on DVD I think). Bruce

This is probably a good time to start its own section with the discussion on the Harwood DVDs soon to come out. I think a section of reviews and impressions on the current videos ands DVDs would be good. There are some that are geared to be pretty basic, and others are pretty involved. I realize that probably everyone will have different opinions, expectations, and from other lists, I know price points, as to whether a particular set is worthwhile. One's I have seen or have are a couple of Bruce Cheaney's (cutting saddle and roping saddle), Bill Gomer's, Dusty Johnson's, Jeremiah Watt's on floral layout and saddlemaking off the top of my head. Each of these have merit, and are geared for different levels of experience. I would like for anyone who has thoughts on these resources to share. Thanks, Bruce

The price I was quoted was $400, including shipping. Not sure about the time length, but I think it is a 2 DVD set.

Byoung, I use pearl apron splits. Some sellers list it by that term, and others call it "mulehide". It seems to have lasted as long as anything I have used. Rivet every stress point. Bruce

Barra, Good question. I use a lot of pegboard, that way I am able to change the configuration of the hanging tools as my whims and floor plan have changed. My current shop is a long one-car garage. My benches are mostly the modular "Gorilla Rack" benches and shelving. They are able to be used as racking type shelves or as benches. The underneath is set up with storage bins for scraps or big patterns. The ones I set up for shelves hold leather, trees, and supplies like rope cans, stirrups, the like. I have one drawdown in the shop now, and the works in progress or repairs are stored on a 3 tier pipe saddle rack. My cutting table is actually a used big metal desk. I raised it up 8" with pipe extensions on the legs to make it a comfortable height for cutting (just big enough pipe to slip over the legs). I cover it with particle board for cutting with the roller knife. I have a plastic board for the regular knives. The drawers hold the power tools like the drills, Dremel, heat gun, etc. I have a pegboard next to the cutting table for cutting tools only. All the knives, scissors, draw gauges live there. I know when I am working there to be careful. Small parts and hardware are kept in parts drawers. I have probably 6 or 7. I hang them on the pegboard to save bench top space. Bench top tools I use are a belt sander, two drill presses on the powered side. On a bench that sticks out, I have a Chase pattern splitter, hand crank splitter, handcrank skiver, and rein rounder. They are all set at different angles or arranged so I can use any of them and not be interfered with by another tool. I keep my in-stock silver in parts drawers. I have a small fire-resistant safe in the shop I keep for closeup records and customer silver. The best investment I made in creature comfort this year was the interlocking foam anti-fatigue floor mats. I am lucky I have a covered porch out the back door of the shop. I have tables set up out there. One is for oiling and dyeing, the other is for glueing. The bench grinders with the buffing wheels are out there to prevent rouge splatter on leather. The shop press I use for a clicker is out there also. The only thing I would add is a good sized laundry sink. The closest sink is the kitchen.... Bruce Johnson .

Art, Interesting the "short-list" of names you came up with. Walt Goldsmith has been mentioned before, but I am striking out finding many examples of his work. Also interested that you mentioned Rowells. Hayward is one valley away from me, and the names of Earl Naninga and Bob (?) Bentley have come up too. They both worked at Rowell's at one time. Would be cool if it was an Olsen-Nolte. A supposition has been put forth that would make a pretty good story. Why is there no maker's mark on this saddle? Most all the shops marked their work. This is a pretty good saddle, not a Sears catalog model. Looks like a shop's catalog model. Someone who knew what they were doing did it. Two possibilities. Someone did it on their own for pocket money. Either at night in a home shop, or someone between shop jobs. Wouldn't be the first time that raw materials left a shop a piece at a time. Any more referneces or info on Walt Goldsmsith would be appreciated. Thanks, Bruce

As some who know me form other lists are aware, I have an appreciation for the past. I picked up this little cutie last winter, and have some impressions on it, but nothing concrete. The "provenance trail" is cold. I would appreciate any advice on who might have made it, there is no maker's mark to be found. The tooling pattern was not uncommon although many suggest Porters. I have another Porters saddle, but it is maker stamped about everywhere you could stamp one. The front ring riggings hung off the skirts were a Porter deal for a while, but most did not have the small rear dee. Could have been, but that was common for some of the San Francisco shops in the 30s and 40s too. A few have commented that the silver is probably older than the saddle and was either scabbed on after it was made, or provided to the maker at the time of ordering. The pattern of the conchos with the pico points and crowsfoot pattern was common for a long time from early Garcia to ?? The stirrup conchos are rounded, no points like the string conchos. I see that on some of the Garcias, and old Keystons. Whether that is by intention (the points catch brush or tear things up) or these are replacement stirrups -?? The puzzler, and attraction for me, are the swell plates. They are definitely hand-done. I can see side to side subtle differences. The stemwork coming out of the 5 petal flower on the top front and rear is interesting. Many of the pieces engraved by the silversmiths of the day had a similar pattern but their leaves had rounded points, and what we would call decorative cuts in leather, did not reach the center of the stem. I have a Gutierrez bit, and although it has been suggested the swells are reminiscent, there are the differences. There is no makers stamp on the back of the string conchos. I tried to remove one swell plate. After popping the head off a nail, called it good and pulled it enough to peen down and look original. Any thoughts, impressions, or referrals for information on either the saddle itself or silver would be appreciated.

Barra, I think you are describing what I call a channeler. It is an old shoe tool, some are a straight and others are angled. I have not used one yet, but have one "in the mail" from Bob Douglas to try out. I plan on using it for the hidden stitch on cantle bindings. The way this guy did it on his skirts and riggings was to cut the groove with a border guide on his swivel knife - a vertical cut down through the grain partway, not in from the edge like a hidden stitch. He then stitched it, put some cement in the groove, and pounded it over enough to close that slit over the stitch line. This was the first time I had seen this done. Made for a clean look, but was, well, odd. I am not sure how deep he cut the groove. Since there is not a pull against the seam, I would guess a guy could go fairly deep (half maybe??) and be alright. I think this guy was from Montana or Idaho, and was sharing a booth space with a guy who made some pretty cool chinks. At the NFR tradeshows, that is still pretty vague I know. Anybody know more about doing this, or who I might be talking about? Bruce

To follow Darcy's example, I do the same on flat plates and skirts. There is no tension across these lines, they are holding either a lining layer or plug and shearling on. The abrasion on these threads is what hurts them. To carry this one step further. I saw a saddle in a booth at the NFR - nice handmade setup. I kept thinking something looked odd, but couldn't place it. You know how when something is NOT there, you know it, but don't know what it is. Hit me. There was no stitching on the skirts or plate. What this old guy does is to stitch in a swivel knife cut. Then glued it and pounded it closed. His theory was more protection from abrasion, and the grit getting down into the stitch holes and abrading the stitches. Anybody else doing this?? Bruce

Blake, The biggest disadvantage is the cost. I know several guys can make these themselves, and I probably could too, but Ron has worked bugs out I wouldn't have thought of. I bought the overhead arm with laser, the cantle binding arm lifter thing, and the stand. (I also bought the stirrup stretcher, but let's leave that for another topic). All together for everything I think it cost me about $1200. That is why my wife had to talk me into it, and she is now Ron's best oustside salesman. She showed everybody we knew at Wickenburg, and was still demoing it to friends at the Elko show. When I got it home and set it up, it was like an addition onto my shop, not into my shop. I could actually walk around that area easily. I was able to move out both my other drawdowns. I sold one. The other is out in the shed, for when I need to twist and stretch some leathers on a repair saddle (or the new ones that didn't get that "option" done at the factory) or need to draw something down on two saddles (?). That shed is kind of the "mothball fleet" for me. If I put something out there and don't need it a preset timeframe, it is sold. The stand has a month to go. The benefits of the hydraulics is that I can raise and lower the work to fit me. I can pivot it around or raise and lower with the strap on, without changing the tension or turning the whole base. Weaver's hydraulic stand has eyebolts in the base to attach the strap to. When you raise it, that creates the tension. You may not be able to raise it to the best height w/o loosening or tightening the strap. On Ron's I can loosen the base on mine without changing height or tension, give it a spin and work on the other side. I have benches on three sides of the drawdown area. Before with two stands, I couldn't turn them easily, I walked around. Never failed, the one tool I left on the other bench was the one I needed. Now I could almost sit on a stool and build. This is my most favorite feature. Other favorite features of this model vs. others. The top is molded to fit a tree. It is not a flat plank covered with neoprene. On mine it will hold a tree. I can skive a ground seat without a strap. It is heavy enough to pound against without skating. The laser deal is cool. I haven't had a chance to sew a binding yet with the arm. It locks in several positions. so should be OK. I am feeling about this stand like I did when I went from the Boss stitcher to the Adler to the Ferdco. It reminds me of the old Surge milking machine slogan - "If I only had one cow, and she only had one tit, I would still use my Surge milker". I know I am in a different position than a lot of makers. Right now, I am looking at having a complete shop with the right equipment. At some point the shop is going to be making more/most/all of my income. Even though the shop is a legitimate business and income producer, the tax benefits now outweigh balancing new purchases against straight shop income in the future. With the two sewing machines, the bell knife skiver, and this stand, I have reached what I feel is the point of having 'enough'. Now all I need is more knowledge. Bruce

Gary, I think Ashley is in one of the flooded out areas, and was just moving back into the shop. I have done some of these. Basically you need to make a pattern for every size of stirrup. I just use oversized pieces and cut until I get a fit, then used it for the other stirrup. Start with some medium temper leather, too soft and they will not stay tight, too firm and you will fight to get them molded and formed. Case the leather up good and first form it to the inside of the stirrup. You can do this on the whole stirrup or each side and use the tread cover to hide the seam. Wrap the leather around the stirrup to meet at the outside. Leave a tab at the inside top to fold over to the outside and cover the top edge of the stirrup. Where the leather meets on the outside, trim it so it meets flush. Then I trim a skosh more off, to allow my lace to really draw the leather tight. I punch the holes directly across from each other. I use a hole size that my lace will fill. I prefer to use a small slot punch rather than an oval or round punch to avoid the gaps in the hole that will show the stirrup underneath. The lace is cut and beveled on the flesh side, and I cut it wider than the holes I punched to have little or no gaps between the laces. Then I basically whipstitch with the lace, so the correspnding holes are directly across from each other and the lace is horizontal. I go a little loosely, then go back and tighten securely. Once you do a few of these they go fairly quickly. I have found these type stirrups also can be bought from some places for less money in decent quality than I can buy blanks and spend the time and materials to cover them. I let the feedstores sell them, and I make more markup on Monels or covered and sewn stirrups. Bruce Bruce

I use one from Jim Downey. His contact info is ph # (928) 442-3638. He is in Skull Valley, AZ. I have the large one he sells. It will bevel lace up to maybe an inch wide down to thin lace. It is not a cutter. I think his new one will bevel at two different angles. Last I saw him, they were running around $80 at the shows. For one that cuts and bevels, Lacemaster makes one, as does Wayne Jueschke. I think someone is making the Frank Hansen string trimmer as well again. They run about $250 up. I don't have the contact info for Lacemaster handy. Wayne's number is (775) 738-4885. The ones that cut and bevel are limited. They will do widths up to about 3/8". I needed one to bevel saddle strings, and Jim's does that like a champ. Also is safer than the blade in the end of the wood block I was previously using. Reached across that one morning and ripped a shirt from cuff to elbow. The shirt was totalled, the arm was OK. Wakeup call for shop safety. Bruce

It seems like drawdown stands are one of those things that vary from shop to shop. Most of us at least started with a wooden stand, probably made it ourself. Some of us are still using the original, have modified it, or moved up to a hydraulic - homemade or commercial. I would like to get a discussion going on what everyone thinks is the best for their own use. To kick it off, I started with a modification on a old wooden saddle stand I made 20 years ago - cut a slot in it, put in an arm and wedged the arm to create tension. It worked OK, gave me pretty much all the range I needed for the arm. It was a good height for shaping ground seats and "low" work, but a lot of bending over for sewing cantle bindings/horns, and screwing in conchos. Two years ago I made one on the same pattern, but higher. It worked well for "high" work, and was less fatiguing. The advantages of two stands was that I could be working on two things at once. Disadvantage was that I had two stands in the shop, and my space is pretty tight. This spring we went to the Wickenburg show. My wife scouted ahead, and found Ron's Tools. By the time I got there she was convinced I "needed" one of his hydraulic stands. I went home with one and have no regrets. The top really holds a tree nicely. The drawdown spring is mounted to the post, not the base like some. I can pivot the tree all round and not have to remove the strap. I can raise or lower likewise with the strap in place. Makes working at a comfortable height much easier and faster. Doesn't seem like a big deal, but the work pivots to me. I don't have to walk around to the other side. I can lay my tools out on one bench, and not carry them around with me. I have the removeable overhead arm, and laser attachment. It shoots horizontal, vertical, or crosshairs. Just line it up on the centerline of the tree, and it ensures even rigging placement, checks trees for even cantles, etc. I haven't done a Cheyenne roll since I got it, but there is a tip up arm to raise the tree for that. The biggest advantage is that one stand has replaced the other two, is easier to work with, and has a smaller footprint in the shop than either of others by themselves. I know Ron isn't the only maker of these, and thousands of trees cross a wooden drawdown every year. I would like to hear what others are using, and where they would or have changed on them. Bruce

Stephanie, I agree with the previous posts that you really have to try a swivel knife to see the differences. The height and barrel size are important. The yoke or cradle is a factor, width shoud fit your finger. Some yokes are flat stock, and others are contoured. Then you get into blades, thin blades/thick blades, angled blades/straight blades, then widths -1/4,3/8,1/2. Lots of choices and combinations. Different configurations for different styles of carving, different hand size, even the angle you hold the knife at makes a difference in all these choices. I have knives from Chuck Smith (Ol Smoothie), Barry King, some of the fat barreled old Tandy Pro knives, and a drawerfull of the regular old TLF knives (yard sale set finds). I have different blade set ups on the regular users. You are most welcome to come down and play with any of them. Other than the IFoLG show in TX, I think the trade shows are about wound down for the year. Bruce

Barra, For breast collars, my standard length is 36" from tip of the ring to tip of the ring. I sometimes will make some up a bit shorter, down to 32" for colts or some saddles that have the attachment points pretty far out there. My headstalls vary depending on use and head size. Personally I don't like a lot of excess length flopping around the side of their face. My crown pieces vary from 26 to 32 inches depending. My cheek pieces start off as 16", and then are shortened by the bit end and buckle end folds. Browband stays pretty constant. I make them 13-1/2 for the "inside" measurement, and then allow for the crown and throatlatch widths after that.

The Dale Harwood DVDs on saddlemaking are due to be released at about any time. They were doing some re-editing since the first announcement last winter, and last I heard, were doing the final duplicating. Has anyone had the inside track to see them yet?

Ken, A quick and dirty thumbnail differences for circular patterns. Arizona tends to use larger flowers with the flower on the stemwork. California tends to follow the circular pattern of the Sheridan, but the flowers are larger relative to the circle, centrally located, and overlap the stemwork somewhat. Sheridan follows a circular pattern also, but the flowers tend to be smaller relative to the circle, the stemwork is more intricate. These styles are not carved in granite, there is overlap, each person tends to view them and definitely do them just a little different. Example - some will say that CA has a checkered background, and Sheridan has bargrounded backgrounds. Rules are guidelines until you find out how to break them for "your" style.

My thanks go to Johanna for help in reorganizing the saddle and tack section. I think this will make this section easier to get around in and be a great resource. By way of introduction, Johanna has asked me to be moderater of this section. I am very happy with the great response we have had so far on this section. I want to personally thank everyone who has contributed. Also I would ask that you invite anyone you think might be interested to join us. We have a great mix already, everyone from users to first-time makers, part time makers, and respected full time makers. With that sort of braintrust and fresh questions, we can't help but all take something away. We are unique in the saddle business among most other leatherworkers. There are a few fulltime purse makers, belt makers, or checkbook cover makers. There are many fulltime saddlemakers. There are people here who have done some apprenticeships most would die for, and some that are learning from a book or video and only ever expect to make one saddle. This brings different backgrounds, perspectives, and expectations. We have a fulltime treemaker on the list. Not many other groups can claim that. The opportunities to learn here are boundless, and active participation and inviting more in will get it done. Thanks to all

Darcy, Apparently it was done as a booklet. A google search shows a copy in the collection of the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum (formerly The Cowboy Hall of Fame) in Oklahoma City. Not a lot is showing up on a search. The name is correct, it is called Saddles of the Old West. Sounds like he made some period reproduction saddles for display.

Happy Birthday, Frank. I just finished a bit of cake for breakfast (ala, Bill Cosby), so I will consider FZ birthday cake. Have a good one. Bruce Johnson

Steve, I have used about 45 sides of it. It is a little softer than Herman Oak, similar to the old Caldwell-Moser I started with. It works up better for me. I like the way it tools and oils. Occasionally I buy the second grade when they have them on special. Usually that is more for making up stuff like strap work, repair parts to cutting something I just can't get out of a saddle side. The second grade is the same tannage and works up just like the number 1s. The number 1 grade is my choice for saddles. It never fails, the butcher cut or brand will be right in the middle of a seat on all 3 sides if you order just the off grades. Bruce Johnson

Steve, We are on the same wavelength here. Can't disagree with anyone you mentioned. I am partial to Don King as the other of the top two. Maybe we should have age categories. LOL. I have Don's museum poster hanging over my tooling bench. I have the poster print of Don Butler's Wichita Falls saddle hanging in the entry to my house. I can't be anywhere and not be inspired by some great work in my house. I don't remember who did the work for the Holes catalog. Some guys have told me that Gerry Holes, when he was "on", was about as good as it got for their style. I saw a fender a few months ago that Bill Rogers had just tooled. I don't know how old Bill is, but has to be mid 70s. He worked for Visalia, and then has been around the horn. He was just at Caps for a while. This fender was plenty cool. I have said it before, but I am glad we have these guys to look at their work and borrow (steal) from. Bruce Johnson

For the under piece, I slipped it over the horn while the Barge was still wet. I then tacked the filler in place on top of the horn. I hit bottom of the filler and the edge of the bottom donut piece with a little heat and tacked it up. Positioned it and pliered it. That pretty well held it while I worked the slack down and compressed out the wrinkles. By this time the neck and bottom part of the underpiece was fairly tacky, so I made it kind of evenly wrinkled all the way around (looked like a cupcake paper, if you know what I mean). As the casing got right in the leather to compress, I worked the wrinkles flat. I used a bone folder, slicker, smooth hammer, and my hand to get them down. I found a piece of low neck, infront of the flanky front pocket worked best for me. I tried a flanky stretchy piece first. It worked in OK, but was still a piece if flanky stretchy crap when done. Then I tried some low belly. I ended up chasing wrinkles around the neck, wouldn't compress as well. The neck has the firmness and compressibilty that worked best for me. Bruce Johnson