Cumberland Highpower

I recently received a sales flyer from Weaver with the "New" 969 Pure sewing machine in it.... Overall I am curious if anyone has purchased one and what the thoughts are? I've never used a 969 in any production capacity, also I have played around on many occasions with an ECO in the showroom over the past few years. I was always left with some mixed thoughts. For the past 16 years I've mostly run hook and awl machines (Campbell/Randalls, Union Locks) and a few 205 variants of Adlers.... I am left wondering if the 969 has any advantage over the 205-370? It seems to have a little more clearance under the arm, but what else? I did notice the bobbin was slightly larger, and a little higher lift, but overall I wonder if it was just a way to cheapen up a machine a bit. Seems like allot of plastic is being used. Are the feet/plates the same as on the 205? I'm contemplating to sell my Union Lockstitch machines and perhaps buy a "new" 969. Nothing wrong with the UL's they are great machines, only tired of the noise. Would like a high speed machine that doesn't require ear plugs.

Hmm, lots of decent choices there. I'd probably pick the PFAFF 145 if it's in great condition. I have a 67-373 and it's a pretty good machine as well.

When I started working leather 25 years ago I spent most of my BORROWED budget on a side of Herman Oak leather. Actually most all of my budget.... Besides that, an Osborne stitching chisel from Weaver, an awl, round knife and speedy stitcher from an estate auction ($5 total). Now, I need a creaser, so I made my own from a timing belt tensioner from a 1986 jetta, a piece of metal from a door, a spring, large washers and a piece of pvc pipe connector....Creased all the 1-1/4 straps I needed. Not long after I was able to afford it, a plow gauge from Ebay....I was a big shot with that tool. Klara, I tried every awl I could find on the market, but I never really liked any of them...They just don't feel right to me. Never tried the Barry King (might have to?) The only awl that ever felt right to me is the century old one I've used for the past 25 years and I have no idea who made it. I still do some fair amount of hand sewing w/linen on a few items.

MtBiker, I thought he meant to say the foot wont lift while sewing. The 206 and 226 are unison feed machines, they should lift and lower while stitching. Maybe he's testing it with the foot in the "up" position, with the lift lever up. At least that's what I thought might be the issue. No way he could have two failed machines at the same time?

Are you turning the handwheel with the foot already "up" by the lift lever? If it's already up, I don't think it will lift much or any higher by turning the wheel. The chances of having 2 machines with the same mechanical issue at the same time are pretty slim...Probably nothing wrong.

So many replies I feel like maybe I learned something here also. I dye quite allot, but always submersion dye in a 5gal bucket...Something different I guess. Often fully finished goods, stitched and all if the thread is brown or black. I found that a quality leather dyes much better. Herman Oak, Wickett, etc. They don't just dye better, they dry quicker and the color is more consistent.

I see it's been 10 days since you posted, but I would not buy a landis 1 unless you just like the look as a collectible. They're a threaded needle machine that is somewhat crude and hard to use when trying to make modern goods. Lots use them still because of low cost (And low Amish buy them for the peddle power advantage) You can buy many BETTER used machines if you shop around for the same or less. Randall/Campbells, Landis 3 or 16, etc. Somemes a deep Champion stitcher can be found and I think they're one of the easiest to use. You can find used machines pretty cheap if you look, I personally have 2 landis 16s that are in working condition that came out of an Amish Shop. (Usable working condition as they are) that I'd sell for $1300 for the pair. I thought to keep one to give a good going over/full rebuild/repaint just because I like how it looks, and the other to keep as parts or a spare machine for the first, or to make a sign post out of A Juki 441 is a good machine and is a jack of all trades machine that can do nylon and leather. But, they do not stich quite as well as an old hook and awl machine.

Uwe thanks for the photos and the test fit up. I have a few odd applications I'm working on and this helps out a good bit. Also received a floorplate for my Adler 205-64 from you and looks like what I need, Thanks.

That's a pretty interesting machine. I am curious why you'd want one? Is it a collection item?

Tony V I thought that myself when I saw the packing in the photo. When I saw "organic" I thought maybe from hives not treated for mites, etc?? But unless you plan to eat it and want to be a real nit pick it's kinda a so what? Maybe he used it because it's what he found in Kroger?

Yes that's true, and I'm glad at least they (durkopp adler) own part of it. You can say that Minerva is partly owned by the Chinese as a result. I also believe many Durkopp Adler parts are also now made in a plant in Romania, possibly also owned by the Chinese. It's becoming a vicious circle here I'd not be surprised if in 10 years, they'll bring it all "home" for better profits. I had a "Classic" Luberto for while, I bought it on a whim at at an auction and eventually sold it for a fair profit to a gent in KY. I liked it overall. For some reason I broke more needles on it than any threaded eye stitcher I've owned though? And no reverse It was a very stout, easy to use machine. I believe the Classic was just a little more refined/beefed up no9.

Matt part of the problem with Pfaff is that it's just a brand name nowadays. Pfaff, Durkopp Adler, Mauser Spezial (Did I spell that right?) All belong to the Chinese. Chinese owners are free to use the names as they see fit, including marketing Chinese made clones under the PFAFF and Adler name. Lucky for us, so far anyway, the Chinese owners have left Durkopp Adler to operate in Germany as it had been. (Mostly). I think it's a matter of time though..... On a side note, there are very few US made machines to choose from. I've thought a few times to perhaps start building machines, although I just don't quite have time. Anyone remember Tony Luberto? He at least made and marketed a machine. If he can do it, anyone can. Weaver could very likely make and sell Adler 205 clones in house at the same price as the Chinese imports they offer but they choose not to.

200 Euro for a double butt/bend sounds about average really for that common cut in leather. Chahin tanned in Mexico double Bends Wholesale around $330 US here in the States and I'd call that a mediocre leather at best....And often carries that characteristic you note. I'd guess leather in Germany is very high compared to the rest of the world? Is it Sepici/Turk leather or something from Mexico/Argentina? I guess leather is very high in Germany, as I have many a time seen Weaver Leather Employees packing leather bound for individual customers in Germany. Surely it must be high over there to warrant freighting from the States? Europe is such a big place you can use a couple new "German Owned" tanneries. Located in lets say, Romania or Bulgaria where workers earn 4-600 Euros a month....Tannery Heaven.

Probably work out good for small stuff. Probably good for thin light leather like watch bands and wallets. I can't tell how big your cylinder is, but from a guess based on 100psi air pressure you're looking at 1/2 ton maybe. I have a pair of Air Mites that I use and they look to have a considerably larger cylinder and they're rated at just under 1ton. My Atoms are 27 US tons.

Maybe I'll try 4 and 3 cord for the bobbin, see if it solves issues.

Yeah Weaver actually does 2 different kinds of Bridle by Herman Oak. The English Bridle is absolutely great. Waxy top coat, deep dye penetration (In black struck through nowadays) and stuffed just right. The standard Herman Oak "Bridle" they sell is terrible. it's basically just a cardboard hard strap and tooling leather they spray on a real thin black finish (Weaver employee's words). I once got a batch of it in by mistake. (I guess they pulled standard HO bridle rather than the English Bridle). I thought it was some kind of Chahin or Saedesa imported leather it was so bad. That stuff cracks easily, and when you stitch it it shows just how thin the finish is.... I threw it in the trash it was so bad...... The SLC leather looks like the same HO English Bridle Weaver sells, but split down and not dyed or pasted on the flesh side. HO is a tannery, they'll make anything you want to you specs 10 sides or more. Maybe SLC is buying it this way and getting a better price? Maybe, just the piece in the photo is split down? Another possibility is that SLC has a splitter and just buys heavyweight and splits down in shop for lighter weight orders. Call them and ask. TOM-E I buy both and the HO is overall a better leather than Chahin. It's got a great tight grain and much less stretch than about anything else. Sews, burnishes and stitches great. There are lots of good leather but I'd say it's about tops. The HO is usually really consistent in weight unlike imports...I once bought some leather from Thoroughbred Leather (? who made it) and after making a batch of goods, the leather shrank and all the riveted on hardware was loose...That was an education I guess...

I have a peerless 30 "champion" stitcher that I modified for a special sewing application a couple years ago. Everything has worked well on it as long as I've run lubed nylon thread (277) When trying the past few days to switch to linen, I've had quite a bit of trouble with the lock. It either stays a shade loose on the underside, or pulls up nearly to the top with only a slight adjustment of the tensioners.....I just can't seem to pin it down, anyone with thoughts? 4 cord left twist linen top and bottom. Do I need right hand twist thread on the bobbin? I've been using Frankel Stitching Wax. (I buy allot of Fiebings, so tend to go that route). The wax pot in in on the work side of tensioners, rather than having the pot before the tensioners.....Maybe dry thread through the tensioners is the issue? Tried a larger awl to no benefit, Also took the tensioner apart and honed flat (thought maybe some minor grooving was causing issues) and re-polished the tensioning washers and cleaned springs. Everything looks pretty good... Sewing 12oz HO bridle.

Hmm, It's usually when I order leather tanned in Mexico (Chahin via Weaver) that I see that. Is your leather from Mexico/Chahin? I'd say it's a sign of lower quality tanning. 2 coats of dye might cover it. sometimes with Feibings Oil dye 2 coats are what you need. (Brown especially).

Skivers are notoriously fickle machines.....But once you get yours figured out you'll be ok. I never owned a Fortuna like that one, must be real old? I have FAV skivers that use a Fortuna type one piece bell. Yes that's a pretty heavy bevel inside, but deep down I wonder if it's causing you that much of a problem? (Might make the cut harder to make in leather, considering your bevel is more "blunt" than it should be. I used to have a USMC skiver that was a century old and had a large bell thatappears to take the same type of knife as yours. It was a great machine. I'd say your best bet would be to take the thin steel "blade" out of the machine and reverse it. Then, grind your new bevel with the machines internal grinder and lightly deburr the inside of the knife lightly. The blade "clamps" down in what's essentially a large bell shaped collet. Be sure to "bunt" the razor sharp edge on your blade before you take it out, you don't want to get cut!

How about Seiko? I'm thinking to order a new one myself. A few misc parts (screws etc) can't be avoided.

Been looking at some mid size unison feed machines and came across a couple Seikos for sale. I've never owned a Seiko and curious how the build quality is? Do they match or exceed the quality of lets, say a (Japanese) Juki? How about compared to the German Pfaff and Adler machines? The only Seiko I've actually looked over and had my hands on was a Seiko Harness Stitcher, a CH8 if I remember correctly. The Seiko's I've been looking at are relatively pricey late models. (STH-8BLD-3)

I would personally never buy any a Chinese clone of anything. A Genuine Juki is, overall a superior machine. From a technical standpoint, the Chinese are a master of "Package Polish" making a product look good on the shelf. They often do not hold the tolerances of a Japanese or Western made machine as well as often times skipping good heat treatment on critical parts in an effort to keep cost low. Sometimes a "clone" isn't an identical twin. There are times a couple, a few, or many parts are made to a different spec and cannot be interchanged with a part from another "clone' or the genuine article. What will you do in 10 years parts wise, when " Peoples' Revolutionary Golden Dog Fart Machinery Plant no. 112" closes or stops making sewing machines? Yes, for many a Chinese clone can last many years. If nothing else, buy the real article for the pride in ownership. I find allot of irony, borderline hypocrisy here on this forum when it comes to Chinese machines....Many are all about made local, made in USA, made in Canada, Made in England, support the small shops/etc and at first chance to save a buck, run out and buy a Chinese machine.

Sounds like this post worked out with a little help from Constabulary and Cowboy Bob.

Whiz that's quite a bit of money in 1988 dollars. I see them listed online as new machines for $5750 today. didn't Mast sell them for just under 4K 20 years ago? I kinda miss those days. I guess the UL machines have gone down quite a bit as well, probably from other reasons. I paid $800 10 years ago for a tight machine and $200 for an equally tight one 2 years ago. 10 years from now they'll be bringing scrap price. (Hope scrap is up!)

Uwe would you prefer if I had said "Juki" 441 is based on Singer patents? I am trying to find out if presser fit interchange, not really to debate the history of Juki/Nakajima. (I get bored easily). I guess my proof is that I've been around long enough to remember both the Chrysler K car and Nakajima stitchers Here is a photo of a Nakajima 421. I only looked 3 mins on google, and came to this. Juki sells this as the TSC 421 nowdays like most of the Nakajima machines of old. Industrial Sewing machine leather - $1975 | General Items | Klamath Falls, OR | Shoppok