Big Sioux Saddlery

You are welcome. I agree about it being better than the standard double "C". I hate the single "C" for that matter. I see way too many coming in for repair that have torn out or are in the process. Part of what makes the design of the 5055 and similar plates better is that a plug is used and a lot of the pull is sustained by the plug, not just the rivets. Design of the skirt or rigging leather itself has some bearing on how well and how long they hold up before they need repair.

I believe Walsalls has that plate, if it's the one I'm thinking of. I ordered it by mistake. That's a lot of metal under a person's leg, IMO. I used to use Ralph Shimon's 3-way plates, designed on the same principle, being able to move the latigo from one position to the other without unlacing it, but haven't used it in years for that reason. It takes away a lot of flexibility of the skirt. Great theory though.

Well that would be cool, and probably the closest I'll ever get to Africa! I'll PM you

Well, I do, for one. And admittedly, I'm a little balky when it comes to the "electronic era" and techy stuff. I still pack around an old flip phone. Around here, every once in awhile you have to pay for something where they don't take plastic; the feed store, the sand blaster guy, my landlord, so yeah, I still carry a checkbook. And if ya buy some calves at the sale barn. . . .you guessed it, they want a check, not plastic. Just about any local farm auction wants either cash or a check, etc,etc,. Lots of places you can't use plastic and almost nobody carries around a LOT of cash. I know a guy that's never in his life even had a credit card.

I feel like I've been living under a rock. All these years, and I had no idea such a thing existed. I hate to even admit that! And yes, I've been using a square and a dividers!

Nice job, that is a hard stamp to keep lined up, worse than a basket stamp by far, IMO.

Looks like a Union Lockstitch machine to me. I think most of the numbers you're seeing are probably part numbers, the 1833 could be a serial number (?). Wizcrafts should check in shortly and he'll tell you more. I have one but I don't use it much; Wiz knows a whole lot about a whole lot of machines.

I've been following this thread and Bob your last post is very well said. You pretty much stated everything I was thinking. I used to think everything needed to be stitch grooved. In later years, I have realized that NOT everything needs to be grooved. Sometimes a crease will suffice, or even be better than cutting a groove. And oftentimes, no groove is really needed at all. However, there are items, and western saddles are a prime example, that if the thread is not recessed, you will soon have multiple layers coming apart where there should be multiple layers sewn together. I have studied harness since I was 10 years old. I am 50 now. I mean I REALLY studied it. My grandfather's old harness still hung in the barn where I grew up. As a 10 year old kid, I dragged all that harness into the basement of my parents house (they were less than thrilled) and literally spent hours upon hours just studying it to see how it was made. I know one thing after 40 years of working on harness for a living, there are parts of a harness were if the thread is not recessed in some manner, things are going to come apart. It's the reason stitchers had knives to sew traces and rounds, and as Bob mentioned, it's the reason all those cool old groovers were invented back in the 1800's. I rode English horses for a living for 4 years out of high school. The equipment is different. There is very little sewing to come un-sewed. Bob is spot on about the different requirements for English and western equipment. They are different by design because they serve different purposes. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I'd be willing to bet that some of that heavy harness you refer to Martyn, has the traces channeled or is designed in such a manner that that there is no friction between parts: I see a lot of chain and rope in European harness. Even the hind leg of a horse rubbing on a sewn leather trace when turning at the end of the field will eventually wear through the stitches. I'm not trying to pick up where Bob left off. I'm not going to spend much time composing replies to defend something I know to be true, through 40 years of daily experience. But I did feel the need to come to Bob's defense, even though I'm sure he doesn't need defending. Have a great day everyone!

That really is a double whammy! At least once you pay the bill, it's paid. Marriage goes on, and on, and on. . . . Even after its "remedied" it can go on. Got a call last night, woke me up out of a sound sleep. It was ex-husband, "oh I didn't mean to call you!"

I was chuckling to myself as I read JLS's original post, thinking to myself, yep, and I can think of two other groups that are equally parasitic. Billybop, you named one, and no offense to the good people reading this who sell insurance for a living, but insurance companies and agents make up the third group. And as far as a real estate agent taking responsibility for anything in the event something goes wrong, good luck there!!

Here's my experience with a BK swivel knife: I have just one and I probably won't order another. I was very unimpressed. For years I've been using a knife made by Jay Lynn Gore and it is a sweet knife. It came sharp and smooth and takes little maintenance to keep it that way. The BK blade I never can get stropped smooth like the Gore blade, even though it was pretty sharp. The Gore blade is a little wide for finer work, which is the reason I got the smaller BK. I will say however, that BK stamping tools are great! I noticed an immediate difference over the old Craftools I had been using.

Hmm, I think I'm going to try that next time I get a cheap older saddle in that someone doesn't want to put much money into. With no guarantees that the fleece won't open back up of course

I'm buying almost all of my chap leather from The Hide and Leather House now. I used to buy most of it from Seigels of California, but after they closed, I had to find a different source. I've been very pleased with most everything I've gotten from the Hide House. Very consistent leather. Ask for their swatch cards, they have hundreds of types of leather in stock, and if you can't find what you're looking for there, I'd say you won't find it.

Thanks Bruce! That's good to know.

The only boxes from USPS that I was aware of was their flat rate boxes, which I pick up at the post office. So I can get boxes from USPS that will ship at the Priority 3-day rate that are NOT flat rate boxes?? The lady at the post office never clued me in on THAT one.

It looks similar to what happened when I left a green hide in lime too long.

That is very nicely done! Although I've always wondered if a saddle with exposed stirrup leathers and no side jockeys would be a thigh pincher. I hope not for your sake:-)

You got a heck of a deal on a SWEET machine. You will love it! There isn't another machine made that makes a prettier stitch.

Thanks Matt, it's hard to tell from the picture. Even though they look very similar, just a little difference in dimensions could make the difference. I have a supply of extra Landis One shuttles, and even of those, some work better in one machine than another, and some don't work in any of them! Once too much material has been worn or taken off the nose, they don't work anymore. Your shuttle looks to be in excellent condition; is it one from Aaron Martin?

Curious if the shuttles for the #6 will work with a Landis One? They look very similar, both the machine and the shuttle. I've never even seen a #6, although I've always heard it is superior in a few ways to the Landis One.

That, right there! And that! I'm going to, yet again, refer to equine equipment. Cheap equipment sewn on a poorly set up machine will unravel in short order once a stitch is worn through, which will happen in fairly short order also, BECAUSE the machine was poorly set up and the leather not prepped properly. Very rarely does a SINGLE stitch get cut through. Normally what happens is several stitches wear through, and then hand stitching is going to come apart about as quickly as good machine stitching. I've seen old harness tugs with the machine stitching (three rows) worn completely through from rubbing on either another part of the harness or the horse, and the three layers of leather have not yet started to separate because the wax and the thread that is still in the holes are still holding the layers together.

I have long said that "You either make it or break it at the cutting table", although there are certainly plenty of opportunities to "break it" at every stage of any type of leatherwork. Every piece for a saddle must be cut from a specific part of the hide, BUT hides vary from one to the next, so each hide must be evaluated individually. Likewise, while it is true that skirts may be allowed to run softer toward the front, I like to use a little better leather up front for a saddle with an inskirt rig, than if for a saddle with a plate or dee ring rig, so I don't always cut my skirts from the same place in the hide. I normally (but not always) cut my fenders side by side to get them as uniform as possible. If I get a side that is better than average for stirrup leathers, then I may cut several pairs from it, which will likely mean that I won't get any large saddle parts from what's left. I do a wide variety of work and normally have several different projects going at once, and rarely, if ever, cut a saddle strictly from two dedicated sides. If I was building only saddles, with very little "other" work, I might very well end up changing how I cut. While I certainly monitor my waste, economy does not dictate how I cut. I cut each part from whatever leather I have at the time that best suits the part, and generally stock enough leather that I don't have to compromise in any way. Cutting harness is not much different. Each piece must perform the job it's assigned, and calls for specific qualities from the leather. I laugh when I hear guys(usually guys who build saddles only) say that there can't be anything too difficult about building harness, it's just cutting up straps and sewing them together. I'd bet that: (1) these guys don't drive horses, (2) have never seen a bad wreck caused by someone's inept harness making skills, and (3) have never seen a really super high end harness. Especially this last one.

I don't think the OP is saying from the SAME cow, but a right and a left as opposed to two lefts or two rights (hence, the same side of cow). And honestly, I never have ordered or cut leather that way. I cut my pieces where I can get them out of, and I never order just two or three sides for one build. I've heard guys say they order matching right and left sides and cut the right side pieces from the right side hide, and left side pieces from the left hand side of the hide. (Did that just get confusing?) But, like I said, I cut them from where it makes sense and works, not necessarily any hard and fast rules. Maybe if I had someone show me the "right" way to cut from matching sides, I'd change my methods, but so far nobody has shown me. If I try to cut right/right and left/left, sure as heck, one hide will have a blemish and mess up my whole method and I'll have to change everything around to make it work anyway. When cutting up harness leather into straps, however, I do prefer to cut from a right hand side of a critter. That way I'm starting my cuts at the butt. If I have a chunk left over of unused hide, I want it to be the neck/shoulder area. I can do the same from a left, but I have to flip the side upside down. Actually, I'd welcome input into this myself.

I don't think they'd go in an envelope. Stretched out flat, they've got to be around 17-18 long. In the last year, I've gotten a whole lot of "postage due" mail on stuff sent in padded envelopes that the PO said should NOT have been. The $22 quote was to Canada. I sent a couple to WI in a box for just under $8. If I send any more, they'll have to go in a flat rate medium for $13.45, because I'm out of small boxes!

There are a couple things I don't like about Chahin leather. Granted, I've bought no more than perhaps a dozen sides and it's all been from Weaver. Primarily, I got it for the available color choices. First, I don't like what happens to the lighter colors when the edges are burnished. They turn kind of an unattractive grayish color. I got a side of their lightest color harness leather for someone that insisted on tack lighter in color that HO Russet. The leather was just plain ugly after it was worked up. I did have some dark brown skirting that tooled up and antiqued absolutely fantastic, but overall I find the leather not as nice to work as our domestic leathers. I've used it for a couple saddle seats, and they were a pain in the butt to get in. If I have to work twice as hard and spend twice as long, what am I saving?? The sides have not been very clean, although that may just be Weaver. Lots of butcher cuts and healed scratches, so the yield isn't that great. Again, where's the savings then? As big of an undertaking as a first saddle can be, and fitting the seat is a major job for a beginner with plenty of opportunity for major screw-ups, I would not want to make it any more difficult than it has to be. It is possible that it will last every bit as long as more expensive leather, but it could take years before you know. I personally don't feel there is a big enough savings to warrant the risk that it might NOT last as long. To illustrate my point, I bought some English Bridle from Weaver about 12-15 years ago. Not sure what company tanned it, but it was NOT HO. It was their alternative to HO at the time, and whether that was Chahin or not, I don't remember. I made a headstall and a tiedown for my own personal use from that leather. After about 8-10 years, there was a marked difference in how well it had (or rather how well it had NOT) weathered in comparison with items I had made from domestic leathers. My own personal strap goods get taken good care of. I never give them a chance to get real dried out. At least once a year, everything gets oiled. After several years, that leather had a harsh feel and did not respond to oiling like the better leathers. Cracks started to show up around the buckle holes and it did not have the look of well worn, but high-end stuff. At the time that I made the headstall and tiedown, I thought the leather worked up fine and it was a good value for the money. When people pay a lot of money for equipment, they expect it to last. If it doesn't, that's my reputation on the line. I have bought maybe 6 sides of their burgundy latigo, and I guess I do like it performance-wise about as good as any, but again, it's not the most attractive leather. It has a dull finish and nothing improves it. Take my advice for what it cost ya, but I'd spend the little extra and get HO or W & C skirting.