Big Sioux Saddlery

"They all sew scrap!" Quote from the best heavy stitcher mechanic I know. Well, I guess since I am a machine and tool hoarder, I want to play too. My list of current machines, most of which WILL sew, but not necessarily used every day: Landis One (x 4): Yes I like these machines, possibly because it was the first heavy stitcher that I purchased when starting out that would actually do what the seller claimed it would do. Used one exclusively for my first 15 years in business. Vintage (early 1900's) stitcher for heavy harness and saddlery items, I have used down to a 207 and sewed 9 to the inch, but overall they do best with a 277 or 346 and 5-8 spi. Threaded needle machine. Will sew close to an an inch thick Landis 3: Haven't used it much yet, was gifted to me by a dear friend when he found out he was terminally ill. I had tried to buy if off him for years. Used for much the same as above machine. Hook and Awl machine, vintage, again early 1900's, but not as early as the Landis Ones. Will sew 3/4" Landis 16: Another hook and awl machine, came along after the Landis 3's, although I believe they were in production at the same time for a while(?). Completely different type of machine than the 3, even though it is a hook and awl. Used for heavy work also. Will sew 3/4" +. Randall: similar in style to the Landis 3, but preceded the 3 in production. I believe the Randall and Campbell machines were in production before the turn of the century. Hook and awl, more suited to finer work than the previously mentioned machines, 3/4" is absolutely maxxing this machine out, unless it is a High-lift model. The stitch made by this type of machine has never been duplicated. Cadillac of heavy stitchers. Union Lockstitch: Another heavy hook and awl stitcher, more of a high speed production machine. Sews 3/4" . Finicky and fickle, I don't even attempt to sew smaller projects. I need to have at least a set of 4 harness tugs to sew before I'll fire this one up. American Straight Needle: Intended as a machine for side seaming cowboy boots, it was marketed as able to also stitch soles and do harness work. It is a compromise at best for harness work, having a narrow 4" throat. Smooth running machine that will throw a pretty nice stitch when everything is right. Cowboy 4500: Enough has been said about these that I don't need to be redundant. Versatile machine, but you know what they say about a Jack of all trades! I bought it specifically to sew Biothane harness. Beyond that, although I use it often, I could get along without it if working only with leather. Ferdinand Bull 900: Came in a shop buyout, sure glad I didn't buy a new one back in '91 when I was starting out. Threaded needle, heavy stitcher, doesn't even come close to being the machine the vintage heavy stitchers are. Juki LU-563: Flatbed light stitcher, 3/8" max lift, run 138 or lighter thread, although I have run 207. Patch machine: not even sure of make or model because it had been repainted and no decals when I bought it. Sews good, but I have limited use for it. Came in a package deal Singer 29-4 Patch machine: doesn't sew for more than 5 or 6 stitches. Came in another package deal, otherwise would never have gone out looking for one of these. American Curve Needle: Hook and awl, for sewing soles on boots. I don't build boots, came in another buyout. Landis Curve Needle: Ditto of American Curve Needle. I think that's all of them.

Not fair!

Among the poorest, and a lot of it is their own damn fault. I know way too many leatherworkers who are constantly trying to undercut their competition. All that does is prove to the buying public that a product CAN be made and sold for that low price. I turn work away nearly every day. Specific example today, a lady brought in a saddle with the front rigging worn through about half way across. I gave her a quote and explained why it would be that much. She asked why I couldn't just "put a strap across the worn part and nail it up there or something". I explained why I wouldn't do that, not the least of which is I don't want my name associated with work like that. She stated that my quoted price was more than the saddle was worth, and promised that she wouldn't tell anyone that I did the work. No can do, I told her that I wouldn't sacrifice my standards for anyone, and agreed with her that the saddle wasn't worth the money it would cost me to fix it, but that doesn't mean that I can work for less money. My groceries cost the same as everyone else's. After all these years (27 in business) sometimes I still shake my head at the things people say and ask me to do. So, even though I stuck to my policy on this job, somewhere, she will probably find someone to do what she wants, and that person is just reinforcing the customer's expectation to do shoddy work for low wages. This isn't an easy business to be in; you really have to love what you do, be tough, fair, honest and willing to turn work away that will lose you money, even if it means living poor because of it. Today's example doesn't happen to me that often anymore. I sure turn a lot of work away because I'm honest with my customers about cost vs value of the item, but because I have maintained high standards for nearly 3 decades, and have gotten better about saying "NO", most people around here know better than to come to me and want it cheap. We owe it to ourselves to price our work at a level so that we can make a fair wage above our expenses. As far as a sewing machine paying for itself, it depends upon how deep into the trade you want to get. My first sewing machine was not paid for by money made doing leatherwork. There was no way for me to get enough done, quickly enough, to save enough cash to buy one. My thoughts on buying machinery are more along the lines of "That machine will allow me to do more of such and such a job, faster, better, easier, which will allow me to get more done in a day." Time is money, period. If I was to evaluate every machine purchase by trying to decide if I would recoup the cost in dollars and cents in a given amount of time, I'd probably still be poking my stitching holes with a nail. I say, if you want a machine, and have the $$, go for it. You are very limited when stitching by hand. Best of luck to you!

Lol, wasn't trying to win anything, just educate

You're welcome. In addition to the above mentioned reasons for not liking them, the last I checked the caps were available only in plated steel. I avoid using anything that can rust in my products, since I deal primarily with equine equipment and most equine equipment gets used and stored in a non-climate controlled environment. In other words, if it CAN rust, it WILL rust, and rust rots leather relatively quickly. Plated steel doesn't resist the moisture of the atmosphere and horse sweat very long before the plating peels off and the base metal rusts.

I use them only occasionally, usually only on something where both sides of the rivet will show, and it's unacceptable for the "splash" to be showing. I find them fiddly to set, even having a cap anvil on my riveters. Length is even more critical than if just splashing the rivets. I try to avoid having to use the caps if at all possible; I have found them more likely to fail, and if the cap pops off, there isn't much left holding because there isn't much room in the cap for the rivet to spread (which is usually the reason they fail)

While I hate doing these as much as anyone, I do understand why some people want them. It is the smallest possible way to cover a horn. In other words, you get the smallest possible cap size. Barrel racers are usually women, and women typically have smaller hands than men, and the larger the horn, the harder it is to hold on to. Also, the braided rawhide offers better grip than just a leather cover. I will admit that I also offer, and maybe try to talk them into the traditional leather wrap as an option when someone wants a braided horn recovered. Some are fine with a leather cover, some are not. Some opt not to have the horn recovered at all when they find out it is more of a job and consequently a much higher cost than "just kind of glue it back together". If I was a barrel racer (I am not), I guess I too would opt for a rawhide braided horn. In any other type of riding, with the possible exception of cutting, I would not want a tall, skinny horn that will more easily poke a hole in my belly or anywhere else should a horse fall with me or, god forbid, flip over backwards.

I am glad to hear that you value your time and work enough to not give it away. It is a common beginning pitfall (and also for some not-so-beginners) to underprice their work. Look around at like products. While your work, nor mine, will not demand the same price as the top makers in the industry, our customers should be at least be paying us a decent wage PLUS a markup on materials, PLUS enough to pay for our investment in the business. I always figure if I can't at least make enough to equal the interest on the money I have invested, after I take a wage out and pay all expenses, then I either need to raise my prices or find something else to do. Like products sell anywhere from $400 on up. Personally, I wouldn't even think about it for less than $400, and if I actually broke down every minute I'd have in a bridle like that, it would probably be a lot more. That eliminates 99.9% of the driving people in my area. . . they expect the whole harness for less than $400, but as you know, there IS a difference.

I see a future for you as one hell of a figure carver.

Only when buying! Haha. . . it sucks when selling horses up there! $1700 Canadian would be about $1300 US, and it just depends. I have never paid more than $1000 for one, and my highest priced one also happened to be the most worn out one. It isn't uncommon to see them sell on auctions for $400-$600, and of those they are typically either pretty worn, or stuck and have been unused for the last 50+ years. There doesn't seem to be an in-between in my area. Location can make a big difference on price, as well as the number of accessories that come with it. If there is a bobbin winder, set of feet, work guides and needles and bushings that come with the machine, and it's good and tight, that isn't a bad price. if it shows a lot of wear, and there are no accessories, I would say it's too high. As with everything else, the flood of Chinese machines has softened the market. I would honestly rather buy a machine that has been sitting for 50-75 years and has little wear, even if it doesn't turn completely over, than one that has been in use. Almost nobody oils these machines like they should be oiled, and it makes me shudder when I'm at an auction and there's a good old machine, but dirty and dry as heck, and everyone and their brother walks up to it and turns it over to see if it works.

Both of those shuttles definitely look useable. The main thing we find with them is that they won't hold tension on lighter threads anymore. That is due to a groove worn in the tension spring. That can be remedied, again by a very, VERY skilled welder or machinist. I've used down to a 207 in the bobbin, and sewed 9 to the inch with an old stock fine needle. I don't think anything is available today smaller than a #200; Aaron Martin in Canada may have 180's. But if the machine is tight, you should be able to sew with a 277 thread and #200 needle with no problem at all, and yes I have always used nylon or poly thread. These machines are less picky about their thread than many modern machines. I have some bonded nylon that my 441 machine hates, but the #1 has no problems with it. A word about the modern needles: They are not identical to the old stock needles. The kerf extends further down the needle and inhibits sewing much over a half inch without pinching the thread off between the kerf and the guide bushing. Guys that say they have no trouble with it are using too big of a bushing. I grind down the kerf so that it more closely resembles the old stock needles, and then grind a thread groove. I will try to get some pics of original and modern needles, and you will see what I mean. The machine was made to sew at least 3/4".

I will see what I can find for you on the manuals. There isn't a whole lot of info in it, but it would still be good to have one. You have gotten an extra shuttle, not just a bobbin case! That is worth a lot if it is in good condition! I would not attempt to turn the machine over much before really cleaning up all the moving parts and oiling well. Non-detergent 30w oil is good for these heavy, vintage machines. The Landis #1s are very simple in their construction. A couple of "do's and don'ts" to get you started: Flush all the moving parts with diesel fuel or kerosene to get any accumulated dirt, grime, old wax cleaned out. If there is a good pricker foot in the machine, don't let it come down to contact the needle plate. Oil EVERY moving part EXCEPT where the lifting dog grabs the presser foot bar. That area must be kept free of oil or it will slip. I spray mine occasionally with electrical contact cleaner. When putting heavy work under the foot, don't lift the foot all in one motion; step up by putting smaller pieces under and letting the lifting dog take a new bit on the bar. You can easily break the flat spring (yes I've done it) by lifting too much in one bite. The needle guide bushing must fit snug on the needle. This is one of the most important things to doing good work on this machine, especially with the smaller needle sizes. Eli Schlabach(?) not sure on the spelling of his last name, but he has Landis sales and Service in Illinois. He may have parts, needles and guide bushings. He is Amish but has a phone #. It is the same number as the old Mast Harness Hardware Shop. I used to know it be memory. Run the machine slow, and it will sew forever. A couple parts that are subject to wear more than the others is the feed dog arm and the little odd shaped piece that lies under the needle plate and helps form the loop for the shuttle. The name escapes me, but eventually a groove will wear into it from the needle and you won't be able to adjust it anymore without springing it into the shuttle race, which is very bad. Someone who does welding on fine stuff can rebuild both of those parts, if it is done before it gets too bad. Make sure you keep oil on the needle bar where it slides up and down. A loose needle bar will not allow you to do good work, no matter how good the rest of the machine is. As you can tell, I have quite a fondness for the old #1's! They are capable of better work than any new Chinese clone, provided they are tight and set up right. Both harnesses in the pictures were sewn on a #1, as were countless other sets of harness and saddles before I acquired other machines. I still sew almost all of my traces on a #1.

The guy that got the Pearson stole it! If the #1 is a tight machine, that is a good deal. Bobbins are not horribly hard to find. You can get new needles for them, but the old stock needles are SO much better in design. I too collect some of this old machinery. Every time I come home with a pickup load, my teenage son rolls his eyes and asks "WHY can't you collect spoons or shot glasses??!" Of course since he is my last one left at home, he usually gets stuck helping me unload. Keep us updated and good luck!

They will get along fine. Make sure not to remove the wire from the machine that is attached to the presser foot lift. Leave it tied to the machine and unhook it from the foot pedal. if it is cut off up high, it's a bugger to get in and tie a new wire on. Good luck! I'd like to hear how you get along with it once you get it home and set up.

The problems you have encountered are exactly what I referred to when I stated that "sewing 100 year old leather is a crapshoot". Once it is rotten, there is no conditioner or oil or hide rejuvenator in the world that will strengthen it. In fact, rotten leather often becomes even more likely to break apart into little bits when anything is applied to it. But best of luck to you.

Don't quote me on it, but I think the total weight is around 600 lbs. I do know that two men can't handle it UNLESS you split it. Then, two good men (on a good day) can handle the head and the stand separately. Your machine looks to be nicely original. I have several; it was the first machine that I ever owned that actually sewed, and they can do a darn good job if set up properly and the operator knows how to use it. Edit: Original documentation states that the machine weighs about 600 lbs crated. So still over 500 lbs without the crate.

John, I will PM you, because there is going to be a negative comment about a specific treemaker who uses the DL cards included in my response.

The only thing I have to say is, if the chaps are truly 100 years old, anyone that alters them in this way should have both their arms broken. I would have refused to take the job. Any historical or collectible value is completely destroyed by an alteration such as this. Sewing through 100 year old leather is a crapshoot at best. If they are really 25 or 30 year old chaps, then I would cut a new piece. That will drive home the rule "measure twice, cut once".

Great point, and the same goes for phone texts. Texting is an absolutely terrible way to do business, and yet a large percentage of my customers would rather text than call. I recently had issues with my phone and switched from a Droid to a loaner iPnone, and then back to a Droid. Any texts sent now from an iPhone that texted me while I had an iPhone, are not received by the Droid. The iPhone users have to change a setting in order to correct this. I am amazed at the number of people who have shown up or called saying they had been texting me for days and never got an answer. Disturbing, in more than one way!

Exactly what Ken Nelson said. The scored rawhide won't CAUSE the break, but it will allow it to break, since the rawhide is what gives the tree it's strength. Also, the break in the rawhide can allow enough moisture into the wood to cause it to rot. . . I have seen that also. If you've ever seen a tree in the "wood" without any covering applied, you know how narrow and thin the bars are behind the stirrup slots, especially with the cutters and barrel racer trees. In all honesty, I see more trees broken in the gullet, and the part of the bar where the rigging is screwed in, than broken straight across the bars. But it can and does happen, and why take the chance when you put sooo many hours and $$ into a handmade saddle.

I have purchased several trees from them, at least two as replacement trees. I have never emailed them, so I can't comment on that part, but I don't remember their customer service as being terrible or great, one way or the other. My opinion on their trees: what do you want to build? If you want to build a lower end saddle, use the production trees. If you want to build higher end stuff, use the better tree makers and learn from a top maker. Of the trees I got from them, the durahide covered ones I wouldn't have much faith in. Circle Y is (or was anyway) using them, so that's why I ordered the replacement from them. A horse had gone over in the trailer on top of the saddle, and busted the tree to pieces. Lots of variables on a horse going over backwards on a saddle: did the horse weigh 800 lbs or 1300 lbs, and how hard did he land on it. It's a lot to ask of any saddle, so I'm not holding that against them. But with the number of hours that go into a handmade saddle, I wouldn't skimp on the tree. That's not saying you have to buy the most expensive handmade tree, but I wouldn't buy a durahide covered one. I did build on a Kevlar covered one. Honestly, I did like the tree, besides the inherent issues of using a material such as Kevlar to cover a tree. In other words, having to pre drill-every single hole for any nail you want to put in. The strainer was fiberglass and already installed, covered with Kevlar. While I did add some leather to the ground seat, I was surprised at how well I liked the finished seat in that saddle, especially for an arena saddle. If you have a specific horse you want to fit, I would work with a tree maker that uses the Dennis Lane cards. Buy or borrow a set of cards and use them to determine what your horse is going to need. Short of that, if you yourself don't have the experience to know what tree will work for your horse, I wouldn't expect a production tree company thousands of miles from you, in a different country, to be able to determine what you need either. I'm not trying to be a smarta**, just being straight up. As I'm sure you already know, every company and every tree maker measures things just a little different, and their bar patterns differ from someone else's, so it's a matter of finding out how one companies trees will fit a given back type. That takes a lot of trial and error, and $$. For the difference in the cost of the tree, I would go with someone who handmakes their trees and uses the Dennis Lane system, if you are trying to fit a particular horse. Otherwise, if you just want to build "A saddle" for practice or resale, one of the production trees might be fine.

I find chap yokes to be one of the most difficult patterns to draw. Odd shape, small spaces next to large spaces. It's hard to design a pattern that flows right, but then I have trouble with that even on an easy space to fill. You did well for having no existing pattern to follow. Tell your dad to get those suckers dirty. You didn't make them to hang in the house!

Thank you for the pictures. That is what I had envisioned, only worse. I would tell her the saddle needs a new seat, and personally, I don't do them. The leather for English saddlery is a bit difficult to come by in this country, and there aren't a lot of people who are qualified to do a good job at some of the more advanced repairs, myself included. I guess you don't have a lot to lose by attempting the repair, except money on your time. The first thing that comes to mind however is this: As that area is constantly in contact with the rider's thigh (as evidenced by the fact that it is worn through) I would really be concerned about creating a lump with the row of stitches, and causing irritation to the rider. Not as important as abrasion resistance. My concern about UV resistance is probably just 'new-guy-trying-to-do-the-best-job-he-can paranoia I get that, I really do. Unless the horse stands in the sun saddled, without a rider, for hours upon hours and day after day, I would not worry about UV resistance. The stitches will wear through from abrasion long before they will degrade from sunlight under normal conditions. However I could be wrong about all of it. There are a couple people on here that build English saddles, and perhaps they will be along to offer their opinion, and tell us both that I am full of myself!

Do you have a picture of the area needing repair? Poly is long known to be more UV resistant than nylon. I have yet, however, in my years in business to see any equine equipment sewn with nylon thread fail due to deterioration of the thread from UV exposure. I've seen equipment sewn with nylon thread that was too light for the purpose, and fail for that reason. The reason I ask to see the area needing repair, is sometimes people expect us to perform a repair that sounds good to them, but in reality, will not hold up under even moderate use. Also, if it is under the rider's thigh when mounted, is UV resistance really all that important?

You're welcome!