Needles And Threads

[MissionVao]

I was wondering about the relation of leather oz. to thread thickness, for various levels of thread visibility and I ran into this (seemingly) awesome guide http://www.thethreadexchange.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=polyester-thread-information

According to the guide for my 8-10oz leather I should use 138-277 thread with my new Pfaff 335 when I sew belts and like the nice plump but not too thick thread.

But what troubles me is the manual says I should only be using needle size 33-69, nothing above.

Since my machine can sew through whatever leather thickness I can fit under the foot, with ease, plus I saw a Hermes factory video where they use Pfaff 335 with huge needle and thread I have to wonder who's right.

Edited September 28, 2015 by MissionVao

[shoepatcher]

Most Pfaff 335's including mine can handle #138. I have even seen a few handle #207 on top and #138 in the bobbin. Never seen one handle #277 thread. I would love to see that Hermes video on the 335 with huge needles and thread.

[stickandtin]

Watching an upholstery training video. Guy on video is using clear polyester monofilament thread in his machine(consew RB1). Claims if you sew with monofilament, you never have to worry about matching thread color to material. Does anybody here use monofilament? What size needle and monofilament is recommended for upholstery weight material and marine grade vinyl? What are the pros and cons of using monofilament?

[CowboyBob]

The cons of monofilament are the sun breaks it down real quick maybe 2-3 yrs,it can also cut into vinyl,it's better to use it on cloth type of material for that reason & if you use it a lot it cuts into the thread guides & tension unit & after while it cuts grooves in the hook.

[Tejas]

Tenara and other PTFE thread is a monofiliment and essentially impervious to UV. I use it on boat canvas here in Texas and ten-year old stitching shows no UV deterioration and will probably outlast Sunbrella fabric.

Here are a few quotes from Gore.

"Unaffected by Sunlight"

"GORE® TENARA® Sewing Thread maintains its strength even after regular exposure to UV sunlight. UV resistance is built into the thread, and is not a coating or additive that can wear off."

"Weather-Proof"

"GORE® TENARA® Sewing Thread remains flexible and strong in extremes of hot and cold. It won’t absorb water and it resists acid rain, salt water, pollution, snow and freezing."

Tenara comes in a few colors and also clear, and is available in V-69, V-92, V-138 and V-207, but is much more expensive than bonded polyester.

In discussions on another forum, some canvas sewers claim the SolarFix PTFE thread is easier to sew than Tenara.

I've only sewed V-92 Tenara and use Singer MR4 135x17 needles.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Tejas

[Wizcrafts]

I just looked up some sources for Tenara thread and the cheapest was $99.99 for an 8 oz spool!

[Tejas]

As I had said, Tenara is much more expensive than bonded polyester.

However, Sunbrella is guaranteed for ten-years. Within ten-years almost anywhere here in the South, bonded polyester will weaken, and the seams even come undone from UV.

Pay now, or pay later.

[Wizcrafts]

Fortunately for me, thread-wise, I live in Michigan. UV deterioration isn't much of a problem up here, especially when most of my sewing is on garments, biker vests, belts, holsters, tow straps, pouches and cases.

[stickandtin]

I've heard Tenara was expensive. Hadn't had a need for it yet, but eventually want to add making RV awnings to our list. The upholstery video I was watching involved furniture and cloth material, no outdoor applications or vinyl. Bob, thanks for the advice on what monofilament can do to your machine. Can Tenara inflict the same wear issues over time?

[Tejas]

You might want to ask that question on

http://www.upholster.com/upholstery-forum/

There are marine canvas sewers on the forum who have commented on PTFE thread.

PTFE thread seems really slick, so I'm guessing wear is not a problem, especially in low volume production use.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Tejas

[AhniRadvanyi]

Hands down- best machine I've used is the industrial JUKI with walking foot.

I use upholstery thread and a 19/22 needle.

Here is the machine and thread in action, sewing a high end leather jacket:

 

[DrmCa]

About a year ago I bought one box each of sizes 14, 16 and 18 of 134-35LR needles by Organ. Since then my wife made half a dozen pairs of leather gloves, repaired a couple leather jackets, made a few cellphone cases and of course a few needles broke, but for the most part they just stopped stitching well without any visible signs. I call that getting dull. We have about 5-6 needles remaining in each of the boxes, so we used 4x3=12 needles for about as many items. And that got me thinking about TIN coated needles, but I could not find any. Google just was not forthcoming with TIN coated needles, though I could find some of them in larger sizes.

Long story short: can anyone recommend a brand and source of TIN coated needles in 134-35LR system, sizes 14, 16 and 18?

If it matters, we use them in Pfaff 335 and do most of our sewing with chrome leather and nylon thread Tex 20 to 90

[Nightshade]

Tagging for later

[Northmount]

22 hours ago, Nightshade said:

Tagging for later

If you go to the top right of this thread, there is a button "Follow" with the number of people following this thread.  Click on the button and set how often you want to be updated when additional posts are made on this thread.

Tom

[Timekeeper]

Good morning gentlemen.

I've recently acquired a Landis lock stitch machine. Late 1800's. It came with one needle marked Landis 3. 

What thread should I use with this needle? Also I am a knife maker and will be sewing my own sheaths. Usually 3 layers of 8_9 ounce leather. About 1/2 inch thick total. Is there a supplier for smaller needles. This needle is larger than needed. 

Thank you for your help.

Kevin

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Timekeeper said:

Good morning gentlemen.

I've recently acquired a Landis lock stitch machine. Late 1800's. It came with one needle marked Landis 3. 

What thread should I use with this needle? Also I am a knife maker and will be sewing my own sheaths. Usually 3 layers of 8_9 ounce leather. About 1/2 inch thick total. Is there a supplier for smaller needles. This needle is larger than needed. 

Thank you for your help.

Kevin

Kevin;

You will probably get more answers if you start a new topic in this section of the forum, rather than adding to an old pinned topic that has nothing to do with your brand of machine. There are several Landis owners here that can assist you. Just start a new topic.

[cdthayer]

I tried putting an old style (new condition) 7x3-25 “Cold Swaged” machine needle in my Durkopp Adler 205-370, but the shank is too big to go into the hole in the needle bar.  It’s just a hair big enough that it won’t go in.  Organ 7x3-26 needles go in fine.  I don’t know the age of the old style needle (looks like “D&H Trade Mark” brand), but I’m wondering if they were manufactured prior to development of the 794 needle system, and that today’s 7x3 size compromises to cover multiple needle systems? I don’t know what the “C.P.” designation means, but I assume it indicates the point style.  Anyone know?

CD in Oklahoma

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by cdthayer

[Gymnast]

I have based the needle size on the thread and fabric i use. I normally store all relevant sizes of needles with regular point. A starting point for me is the guide from the thread manufacturer - and in my case Amann:

https://www.amann.com/products/ 

They have a recommended needle size for all their threads. I have noticed, that for the same tex value or number involved for nylon and polyester, then Amann recommends a larger needle for nylon. Polyester have a higher density than nylon, and therefore nylon will have a bigger effective size for the same weight. This could be one explanation.

I start with a needle size recommended. Then I may try to reduce the needle size until it do not work for the fabric and thickness involved.

[SolarLeatherMachines]

On 5/13/2019 at 6:28 AM, Gymnast said:

I have based the needle size on the thread and fabric i use. I normally store all relevant sizes of needles with regular point. A starting point for me is the guide from the thread manufacturer - and in my case Amann:

https://www.amann.com/products/ 

They have a recommended needle size for all their threads. I have noticed, that for the same tex value or number involved for nylon and polyester, then Amann recommends a larger needle for nylon. Polyester have a higher density than nylon, and therefore nylon will have a bigger effective size for the same weight. This could be one explanation.

I start with a needle size recommended. Then I may try to reduce the needle size until it do not work for the fabric and thickness involved.

I am very familiar with Amann threads. I used to be a dealer.  They have many styles of thread, but I'm going to assume that you're using either serafil (unbonded polyester) or Serabond(bonded polyester) because they are the most common.  Perhaps Strongbond, maybe.  

The main problem with Amann threads is that they are just too damn good.  They are amazing threads.  They're smooth, they're strong, they flow like water through the machines, and are packaged onto spools in a way that makes sense (length, instead of weight).  They lay down on leather like glass and look AMAZING.  I LOVE the thread, and love sewing with it on my own projects.  

But I HATED selling the thread.  Most Americans here were raised on the coarse american threads or the chinese thread (nuff said).   This thread has all kinds of issues, and people have learned to adjust their machines for those threads.   But give them the Amann thread, and it's not stop complaints about how the machine won't hold tension, they can sew right, it won't work with their needles, etc.  For the Amann threads you literally have to double the standard tensions to get a grip on the thread.  Do that, and then swap back to american thread, and it's just a night full of cussing and screwdrivers.  

For Amann threads you should use at LEAST one size smaller needle.  For 277 thread you should use a 794 size 24 needle.  Maybe a 23.   for 138, you should use a 794 size 22, maybe a 21.  you'll get much better results this way.  

Btw, I have 200 cones of Serafil that I want to get rid of.  mostly 277, 207, & 138, in white, and a few unrelated colors.  make me a decent offer.  Not kidding.  

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by SolarLeatherMachines

[SolarLeatherMachines]

On 10/21/2015 at 12:04 PM, CowboyBob said:

The cons of monofilament are the sun breaks it down real quick maybe 2-3 yrs,it can also cut into vinyl,it's better to use it on cloth type of material for that reason & if you use it a lot it cuts into the thread guides & tension unit & after while it cuts grooves in the hook.

Can confirm.  Monofilament will cut grooves in your tension set over time.  

[RockyAussie]

3 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

I am very familiar with Amann threads. I used to be a dealer.  They have many styles of thread, but I'm going to assume that you're using either serafil (unbonded polyester) or Serabond(bonded polyester) because they are the most common.  Perhaps Strongbond, maybe.  

The main problem with Amann threads is that they are just too damn good.  They are amazing threads.  They're smooth, they're strong, they flow like water through the machines, and are packaged onto spools in a way that makes sense (length, instead of weight).  They lay down on leather like glass and look AMAZING.  I LOVE the thread, and love sewing with it on my own projects.  

But I HATED selling the thread.  Most Americans here were raised on the coarse american threads or the chinese thread (nuff said).   This thread has all kinds of issues, and people have learned to adjust their machines for those threads.   But give them the Amann thread, and it's not stop complaints about how the machine won't hold tension, they can sew right, it won't work with their needles, etc.  For the Amann threads you literally have to double the standard tensions to get a grip on the thread.  Do that, and then swap back to american thread, and it's just a night full of cussing and screwdrivers.  

For Amann threads you should use at LEAST one size smaller needle.  For 277 thread you should use a 794 size 24 needle.  Maybe a 23.   for 138, you should use a 794 size 22, maybe a 21.  you'll get much better results this way.  

Btw, I have 200 cones of Serafil that I want to get rid of.  mostly 277, 207, & 138, in white, and a few unrelated colors.  make me a decent offer.  Not kidding.  

 

All so true. I do prefer the Strongbond  (ex Venus) as it behaves less slippery in the tension and behaves better than any other I have tried. It does not suffer from that hairy look when you finish and burns off nicely as well. Only problems is here in Australia it is getting very low on the colour range available these days and if they don't have it, you have to buy a whole carton of the one colour.

[Bert51]

I was on eBay looking for needle for a couple of my machines from a seller I have purchased needles in the past and I came across a picture of a page called  "Industrial Needle Comparison Table", amongst the pictures of his needles to help with the various numbers for the same type.

As I only have older machines and in Australia, I found he will help do the best postage he can. You can find him at https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/jacksnbs/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Bert.

I hope I am allowed to post that link?

[ScrewItUpSteph]

I am really late to the party, I know...... But is there an specific adjustments I should be making when down stepping from a #22 needle and 138 thread to a #20 need and 92 bonded nylon thread? I am new to industrial machines, and we picked up a Cobra 26. It came with a #22 needle and a spool of 138 thread. I followed the manuals instructions to load a new bobbin, change the needle and rethread the machine with #92 bonded nylon thread. I checked to make sure it was done per instruction manual and Al Bane, and I am pretty confident I did it correctly. My problem comes when I try to stitch. I am using 4oz waxed finished leather in an attempt to make a tote. I was snapping thread, so I adjusted the tension and solved that problem, however, the hook is not catching the top thread (it never did, even before I moved the snapping thread issue). I have searched, and googled, and cussed.... I decided to switch back to the #22 and 138 thread to see if I would still have the problem, and magically.... there was no issues. I am probably not wording my question correctly and I apologize. As I said I am very new to this and any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Stephanie

[Memphis514]

On 5/6/2020 at 11:59 AM, ScrewItUpSteph said:

I am really late to the party, I know...... But is there an specific adjustments I should be making when down stepping from a #22 needle and 138 thread to a #20 need and 92 bonded nylon thread? I am new to industrial machines, and we picked up a Cobra 26. It came with a #22 needle and a spool of 138 thread. I followed the manuals instructions to load a new bobbin, change the needle and rethread the machine with #92 bonded nylon thread. I checked to make sure it was done per instruction manual and Al Bane, and I am pretty confident I did it correctly. My problem comes when I try to stitch. I am using 4oz waxed finished leather in an attempt to make a tote. I was snapping thread, so I adjusted the tension and solved that problem, however, the hook is not catching the top thread (it never did, even before I moved the snapping thread issue). I have searched, and googled, and cussed.... I decided to switch back to the #22 and 138 thread to see if I would still have the problem, and magically.... there was no issues. I am probably not wording my question correctly and I apologize. As I said I am very new to this and any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Stephanie

i have the same machine and want to do the same thing you described so i am wondering if you ever got it figured out

[agteachr]

Please have pity on a newbie.  I have a Singer 17-1 which lists the required needle size as 16 x 2.  I have done some research to learn that the “new” designation for a 16 x 2 is 2047-71. But I haven’t been able to find a correlation to the 100/16, 90/14 etc sizing.  I am going to use it for inlays and overlays in light leather,  any suggestions?  Thanks so much!