Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'canvas'.



More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


Forums

  • Leatherworker Board
    • Show Off!!
    • Member Gallery
    • How Do I Do That?
    • Leatherwork Conversation
    • Leather History
    • Paul Burnett School of Leather Ornamentation
  • The Business
    • Resources
    • Suppliers
    • Marketing and Advertising
    • Help Wanted
    • Getting Started
  • Fabrication
    • Sharpen it!
    • Leather Tools
    • Leather Sewing Machines
    • Leather Machinery
    • 3D Printers and Lasers
    • Patterns and Templates
    • Sewing Leather
    • Braiding
    • Hardware and Accessories
    • Exotics, Reptiles, Furs and others
    • All About Leather
  • Tooling, Stamping & Carving Leather
    • Floral and Sheridan Carving
    • Figure Carving
    • Stamping
    • Dyes, Antiques, Stains, Glues, Waxes, Finishes and Conditioners.
  • Specialty Leatherwork
    • Saddles and Tack
    • Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
    • Motorcycles and Biker Gear
    • Purses, Wallets, Belts and Miscellaneous Pocket Items
    • Historical Reenactment
    • Youth Groups
    • Other Specialties
  • Leather is tanned animal skins, and is a byproduct of the meat industry.
    • Announcements and Administrivia
    • Special Events, Contests and Classes
    • Feedback and Suggestions
    • All About Us and Off Topic
    • Computer Help
    • Leather Photography
  • Marketplace
    • Announcements
    • Finished Leather Goods
    • Items For Sale
    • Services
    • Wanted
    • Old/Sold

Blogs

  • terrahyd's Blog
  • Johanna's Blog
  • joet's Blog
  • CitizenKate's Blog
  • Badlands Leather Art
  • broncobuster's Blog
  • That boys not right.
  • Cow Camp Saddlery
  • 3DArcher's Blog
  • rdb's Bench Notes
  • nopension's Blog
  • leatherman1457's Blog
  • Wizs' Leather Work and Sewing Machine Blog
  • Bob Stelmack's Blog
  • dawn's leather Blog
  • Dusty chap Leather Blog
  • Jbird's Blog
  • Tom Banwell
  • KnotHead's Blog
  • Fewments and Observations
  • rodeomic's Blog
  • joet's Blog
  • bvb knives' Blog
  • DAVID W's Blog
  • *
  • WyomingSlick's Tools and Tricks Blog
  • elkdog555's Blog
  • Leather Masks
  • elkdog555's Blog
  • Leatherimages' Blog
  • Leatherimages' Blog
  • WarEagle Leather Works' Blog
  • Cursos de salsa en Malaga
  • billio8's Blog
  • DJ1935's Blog
  • Heather R Nord's Blog
  • Heather R Nord's Blog
  • katsass' Blog
  • CarolinaTackMan's Blog
  • CarolinaTackMan's Blog
  • DGum's Blog
  • MaddCelt's Maddness
  • Chained Lightning's Blog
  • Chained Lightning's Blog
  • AnAce's Blog
  • AnAce's Blog
  • Information and Communication
  • kleefan's Blog
  • bentley's Blog
  • Painting Cow Studio Blog
  • Brent S. Tubre Custom Saddles
  • rambo's Blog
  • rambo's Blog
  • Fellowsgarden's Blog
  • Fellowsgarden's Blog
  • hacken94's Blog
  • MasterLeatherCraftsman's Blog
  • ?
  • marine mp's Blog
  • marine mp's Blog
  • starving artist's Blog
  • drkuhn's Leather Blog
  • Roy Cook's Blog
  • Roy Cook's Blog
  • Roy Cook's Blog
  • Roy Cook's Blog
  • Roy Cook's Blog
  • GChordLeathers' Blog
  • 8ball's Blog
  • Airship 67 Leather
  • DJordan's Blog
  • Chiwit Design Blog
  • chiwitdesign's Blog
  • diamondbleather's Blog
  • John Wayne's Blog
  • The Flying Ostrich's Blog
  • The Flying Ostrich's Blog
  • The Flying Ostrich's Blog
  • John D Dennehy's Blog
  • Damn Eskimo's Blog
  • Hollywood's Blog
  • darak's Blog
  • cottoncreek's Blog
  • Charlie K's Blog
  • Diane B's Blog
  • Kellog's Blog
  • landy's Blog
  • landy's Blog
  • OrchidNoir's Blog
  • withsilverbells stitch o' rama
  • Balto Joe's Blog
  • Davis Leatherworks
  • capsterdog's Blog
  • henry's Blog
  • john mattingly's Blog
  • hass' Blog
  • hass' Blog camo print
  • 1911 Jerry's Blog
  • DWHarrelson's Blog
  • Zilla's Blog
  • Crazy K's Creations
  • flstenner's Blog
  • flstenner's Blog
  • cchichueng's Blog
  • aeinaleather's Blog
  • alagar's Blog
  • Cg Leather's Blog
  • Cg Leather's Blog
  • smileha's Blog
  • Salazar Leather's Blog
  • Salazar Leather's Blog
  • Jxtime blog
  • Freeze
  • Maverick Leather Company's Blog
  • Legacy Leathercraft's Blog
  • Legacy Leathercraft's Blog
  • leezza2's Blog
  • redsolara's Blog
  • fashiang's Blog
  • Tinneal's Leather Work Portfolio
  • Tinneal's Blog
  • sunnyfel's Blog
  • Quanr's Blog
  • Greybeard's Blog
  • bobocat's Blog
  • Cubezombie's Place
  • theprestigeshop's Blog
  • Colombian Leather Products
  • CJ leather Blog
  • Blackey Cole's Blog
  • TomWI's Blog
  • ayn's Blog
  • Jessica S' Blog
  • ayn's Blog
  • Leathercraft
  • Art's Blog
  • Armor boy's Blog
  • Armor boy's Blog
  • Ebay Blog
  • El Paso's Blog
  • El Paso's Blog
  • DoubleC's Blog
  • Tod Schertzer's Blog
  • Loot's Blog
  • eLw's Blog
  • MadMorbius' Blog
  • MadMorbius' Blog
  • Square Bear's Blog
  • Square Bear's Blog
  • WinterBear's Blog
  • shedhunter's Blog
  • mariobin's Blog
  • chipp's Blog
  • chipp's Blog
  • Miller02
  • Jimbob's Blog
  • Jimbob's Blog
  • gene l's Blog
  • gene l's Blog
  • tackmantoo's Blog
  • bluesman1951's Blog
  • bluesman1951's Blog
  • TMCARDS' Blog
  • TMCARDS' Blog
  • A Journey in Leather
  • SandSquid's Blog
  • maury sewing machinex's Blog
  • buckeroo1's Blog
  • terry and joanne's Blog
  • MirandaDee's Blog
  • leathersculptor's Blog
  • BILL FORBES' Blog
  • White Gate Leather LLC's Blog
  • White Gate Leather LLC's Blog
  • CicadaLeatherCompany's Blog
  • CicadaLeatherDesigns' Blog
  • metaljoe57's Blog
  • missdaisy2006's Blog
  • missdaisy2006's Blog
  • webothfarms' Blog
  • Wyldflower's Blog
  • wyldflower's Blog
  • Ryan Mitchell's Custom Leather Works Blog
  • BLUEGUN Store's Blog
  • stitchnwizard's Blog
  • Teja's Blog
  • vintage clothing lover's Blog
  • Ezio's Blog
  • Second Hand Cowboy Leather's Blog
  • jimmyo's Blog
  • jimmyo's Blog
  • jimmyo's Blog
  • hunio's Blog
  • Brooktx's Blog
  • Kurtman's Blog
  • boodle's Blog
  • EthosCustomBrands' Blog
  • flathead5's Blog
  • StLouis Falconer's Blog
  • Zelikovitz Leathercraft's Blog
  • hotrod's Blog
  • hotrod's Blog
  • Westernartist
  • ted 777's Blog
  • BorisVanJr's Blog
  • Dan Markell's Blog
  • wlg190861's Blog
  • limbs' Blog
  • limbs' Blog
  • daniel yepez's Blog
  • Gainesvilleman's Blog
  • Robert Hulshizer's Blog
  • waterwizzard's Blog
  • RaeNae's Blog
  • weavrdan's Blog
  • POOLCOWBOY's Blog
  • bokehz's Blog
  • Christian Louboutin Belle
  • trikerd1952's Blog
  • Fowlingpiece's Blog- James Rogers
  • srb008's Blog
  • summeryang000's Blog
  • lena4570's Blog
  • lena4570's Blog
  • gainesvilleman's Blog
  • pijushroy1000's Blog
  • pijushroy1000's Blog
  • dana13's Blog
  • cliffordsaddler's Blog
  • boma's Blog
  • jinggu's Blog
  • HandBag Designer
  • DenHar's Blog
  • christianleather's Blog
  • leathertailor's Blog
  • Lisheen's Blog
  • probiotics' Blog
  • Newbie News
  • Learning Leather
  • Leftovers Inc.
  • charles canillas' Blog
  • charles canillas' Blog
  • Woodentop's Blog
  • rexberger's Blog
  • rexberger's Blog
  • hunio's Blog
  • Smokey Allen's Blog
  • darksdeebar's Blog
  • Weazer's Blog
  • Keable Leather Blog
  • crisp2's Blog
  • Keable Leather Local Blog
  • schmara's Blog
  • schmara's Blog
  • schmara's Blog
  • Confused's Blog
  • jimmyb96's Blog
  • bigred85's Blog
  • gypsy1980's Blog
  • gypsy1980's Blog
  • mdntnmtgmy's Blog
  • BeltFctry's Blog
  • rkeron's Blog
  • Lym's Blog
  • borlinoleather's Blog
  • Atif Anwar's Blog
  • Atif Anwar's Blog
  • S R C's Blog
  • S R C's Blog
  • LoriLee11011's Blog
  • LoriLee11011's Blog
  • cowboygear1's Blog
  • Gemini1950's Blog
  • sierrasaddle's Blog
  • sierrasaddle's Blog
  • woodman58777's Blog
  • papadan4's Blog
  • MrV's Blog
  • How do i create a chestplate
  • manny60's Blog
  • Johnny Giles' Blog
  • Johnny Giles' Blog
  • himanshiets02's Blog
  • mene's Blog
  • komaletrade's Blog
  • ranjeet14's Blog
  • etskamlesh123's Blog
  • Nedingham's Blog
  • Nedingham's Blog
  • tom offner's Blog
  • quartercircleoveruleather's Blog
  • artisan1's Blog
  • artisan1's Blog
  • stangman645's Blog
  • manny60's Blog
  • Silverylight's Blog
  • Best Custom Essay
  • skae's Blog
  • Second Saddle Project
  • wintek's Blog
  • Keestarsew's Blog
  • Keestarsew's Blog
  • ElConquistador's Blog
  • ElConquistador's Blog
  • Cowboyhap's Blog
  • Cowboyhap's Blog
  • bigwill23's Blog
  • Illusion Lane's Blog
  • Bookbinders Bench
  • wtf's Blog
  • kenneth gituro's Blog
  • bcflyguy's Blog
  • gunnerdoc's Blog
  • Craftsman Made's Blog
  • Craftsman Made's Blog
  • Torito's Blog
  • EternalHeritage's Blog
  • MaggieS' Blog
  • smokerofstars' Blog
  • Michael Z's Blog
  • Amateur Saddle Maker
  • GD Frippery's Blog
  • Carroll Leather's Blog
  • stropping's Blog
  • Leather bags store first sale
  • Spadacini530's Blog
  • kamerzell730's Blog
  • jshill's Projects
  • jshill's Projects
  • cjcolbyjack's Blog
  • RD Ranch Leather's Blog
  • evaeyeth's Blog
  • New to this! And new to leather work!
  • jennytaylor's Blog
  • ruthleather's Blog
  • Mill Iron J's Blog
  • campingpitter's Blog
  • campingpitter's Blog
  • campingpitter's Blog
  • Francesca Jones' Blog
  • Eben's Blog
  • abbysimpson's Blog
  • cowboyedout's Blog
  • cmenca's Blog
  • Jwsedberry's Blog
  • Jwsedberry's Blog
  • Help Identify My Saddle
  • Tony W's Blog
  • Fischer Workshops Blog
  • taokai's Blog
  • taokai's Blog
  • Fireflyidaho's Blog
  • Flora on Fauna
  • Patsy's Blog
  • Patsy's Blog
  • Daneo's Blog
  • Morningdove's Blog
  • Morningdove's Blog
  • Bohemian Sandals' Blog
  • william friend's Blog
  • Deb Brink 15's Blog
  • Tromek's Blog
  • Tromek's Blog
  • kanadakeith's Blog
  • Colourful Mannequins' Blog
  • Buttons' Blog
  • mustangsmith's Blog
  • jmkjmk2's Leather Tools
  • Leather and Mildly Leather-Related Stuff
  • rnuo2011's Blog
  • evsleather's Blog
  • Skiving machines
  • Freeman15's Blog
  • Professionals dealing with amateurs
  • KristenLeigh333's Blog
  • penguineer's Blog
  • rnuo2011's Blog
  • ewayne53's Blog
  • RafterD4's Blog
  • beyondcomfort's Blog
  • HumanToughDesign's Blog
  • Merianny's Blog
  • fconnection's Blog
  • Ensz saddlery's Blog
  • horsewisperer's Blog
  • Sewing Machine
  • thunter9's Blog
  • fjohnson's Blog
  • fjohnson's Blog
  • Amyb32's Blog
  • Chief31794's Blog
  • Johnboy Richter's Blog
  • Quality Saddles
  • bravefifa's Blog
  • Kieth's Blog
  • Handmade Leather By Rick Blog
  • raminlaghiyev's Blog
  • Nouventi's Blog
  • thePassenger's Blog
  • fat face's Blog
  • jesippel's Blog
  • yourfifagames11's Blog
  • onathread's Blog
  • Tio's Tips
  • Tlhines
  • Looking for SELF
  • Gritty Rustic Leather
  • Ponderosa
  • laser cutting different materials
  • Leather - Billfold's - ( Hand - Tool'ed ) - Specialist - Want'ed . . .
  • Hannahrain
  • Leather Hides
  • Barbed Wire Leather
  • Phoneman916
  • zazzle.com/santoshadh
  • Leather Jackets & Gloves
  • Danno90's Blog
  • Safety Gloves
  • rockingmooreranchllc
  • Cutting Table Opening for a Walking Foot Machine
  • Jano
  • Kaitlynpage
  • Rhale
  • Do You Ever Tried Any Fun Builds In Path Of Exile 3.2?
  • Matthew Wilson
  • High Quality Leather Lace - Hand Tools
  • BrotherRon
  • Don
  • teemack
  • Colin.

Product Groups

  • Donations
  • Leatherworker VIP

Find results in...

Find results that contain...


Date Created

  • Start

    End


Last Updated

  • Start

    End


Filter by number of...

Joined

  • Start

    End


Group


AIM


MSN


Website URL


ICQ


Yahoo


Jabber


Skype


Location


Interests


Leatherwork Specialty


Interested in learning about


How did you find leatherworker.net?


About Me

Found 14 results

  1. vitae112

    Custom design & Printed

    SilverdaleClothing custom designs & Print whatever you want on Tee, Hoodie, Sweatshirt, Flowy tank, Leggings, Caps, Mug, Canvas, Poster with affordable price and high quality... ALL PRODUCT PRINTED IN THE USA. Email: info@silverdaleclothing.com
  2. Hello. I'm making a bushcraft type backpack that will have a mix of leather and canvas parts. I made prototype that turned out really well except for the parts that I used barge to attach the leather to the canvas. For example the leather bottom to the canvas bottom and the leather buckle attachment to the canvas front. You can tell the cement "bled" through. My canvas is light/medium weight - sort of like a carhart jacket exterior fabric.I suppose I could just rely on the handstitching of leather to canvas but since this is a pack, I want it as strong as possible. Another option is a different adhesive but won't those others bleed too? (I only have Barge and plain Elmers but I'd be willing to buy something else if there's a suggestion). If it's a water based adhesive, how is it affected if the pack gets wet? I do plan to waterproof the canvas with a hot beeswax, parrafin, and boiled linseed oil mix that I saw online. I'd love any input.
  3. zaynexpetty

    Gluing canvas to wooden dowel?

    Hey all, I have a dumb question. I am trying to get a better burnished edge, I think what I need is to glue some canvas to one of my wooden burnishers for a dremel and use that, rather than doing it by hand. Can any of you tell me what kind of glue to use? and should I overlap the canvas so there are no gaps or just glue it seem-to-seem? Right now all I have is the green weldwood contact cement, some wood glue, and some of that white water based elmers glue. Thanks! Zayne Thanks!
  4. Graphixon Finishes, a Fort Lauderdale, FL based R&D company has been awarded US Patent#: 9505199 for a process that enables transfer of high resolution, full color graphics to all leather, canvas, vinyl and polyester materials without the need to print directly onto the material. The transferred graphic forms a durable bond with the substrate and it protected against normal wear and tear, liquid and soil damage and fading. It is a fully transferable technology, wherein the process is conducted at the user's site and fully under the user's control. All materials involved are eco-bio friendly and derived from water based formulations that have no odor, fumes or hazardous ingredients. Please visit our website www.graphixon.com for more information and a brief video on the process. Call us for more information, samples and pricing for the transfer materials. GraphixonFnishes-LRz.pdf
  5. Geologicguy

    Newbie Getting Started

    Hi Everyone, Warning: Complete Newb. For the past 6 years or so I've had a desire to learn leatherwork. I love well-made leather products and since I've got fair hand eye coordination I finally want to give a go. I've been trying my best to read as much as possible about the various thread types, leather types, sewing machines, etc. I had contacted a guy on Etsy a few days ago who does great work and he imparted some advice which was "First, know what kind of projects you want to take on" and "Start with hand sewing to see if you like it." Seems logical. So having given this some thought, I'd like to start perhaps with a bag, like a possibles bag, and maybe belts, and then more elaborate bags with linings, pockets, sections, etc. I want to use premium materials in my items. I'm from Chicago originally (home of Horween) but I live in the UK these days (London). I could really use some good advice because I'm finding myself overloaded with info researching this on my own. 1. What is the best leather (and/or canvas) to use for a mens bag, like a possibles bag and/or satchel? I've received some samples from a Scottish mill of some wax canvas up to 24oz which seems to be a reasonable material. 2. Can someone explain, or post a link to a good source, on thread thicknesses, how they're categorized and their applications? i.e. what is a good thread "gauge" and type to use in a bag application. I've read Polyester is the best weatherproof thread out there. 3. What kind of lining would be good for a bag, if any? Would a tartan wool work well? Are linings typically glued in (if so, what type of glue)? or stitched in? 4. If I'm doing this by hand, what is the best needle to use? Are there specific leather or canvas type needles out there? and do they match up with the thread thickness somehow? 5. Let's say I go a sewing machine route. What are some good sewing machine types / brands that I should consider? I've done a bit of research on this and whilst some people suggest a vintage Singer 201K, others seem to use much more industrial and robust machines like a Techsew. I've seen some amazing videos by Arthur Porter. And Wizcraft's posts stand out on this forum. Amazing. 6. Any really good classes, books, or online bag making tutorials out there that are recommended? I know this is a load of questions and anyone answering doesn't need to address them all. I suppose I'm looking for a general "approach" to this whole thing and to understand if there are any "rules" involved. Thanks so much, and apologies for the long post. Any and all advice you can throw my way is appreciated. Kind Regards, Geo
  6. Hi, I love this community of people helping each other, I have read... and read and read, and so now I know that there is no one machine that will suit all of my needs for the rest of my life, I know how a lot of you feel about clones and I feel the same way. I live in an area of the county that has no industrial sewing machine stores remotely near me (29909, Okatie SC) so I will have to buy a machine and have it shipped to me, and set it up myself. I can get a neighbor to help a little bit with physically setting the motor in place. Buying an industrial sewing machine is mainly because my artist uncle died and left me all of his unfinished and will-never-be-able-to-be-sold paintings. These paintings are on canvas and linen with layers of paint - enough to make probably 70 bags. I have tried to make a couple of mock-ups on my home sewing machine and though it's a trooper, of course I am limited (yes I read the post on the difference between home and industrial) but aside from that I want to sew with thicker thread than is possible on a home machine. I want to add leather trim and handles like on the Kuba cloth bag I made at a leather bag making workshop. So I know from my research that I need a cylinder arm, I'd like a binder (I think), let's pretend price is no object (because I think the machines are priced competitively and you get what you pay for) and since there is no one around to service the machine I need one that will not break down (is that possible?). I know I want a servo motor. I believe that a 3/8 sewing thickness will be enough. I think that I need a walking foot. I think in my case it's best to buy a new machine. The help I am asking for here is if you could please tell me if I should look any further than Juki, and which company you can recommend I buy it from. I looked longingly at a Juki 1342-7. I do love the thread trimmer on my home machine but have heard it is very expensive on an industrial machine. Maybe you will tell me that since I live in such a remote place that it really is not a good idea to even buy an industrial machine until I move somewhere else one day. If that is the case I would really appreciate the honesty. The paintings will not deteriorate with time. Thank you, PossumBean
  7. George3

    Which Machine?

    Hi everyone, I'm looking at a few different machines to sew 1000 D cordura, heavy canvas etc. Consew 206RB5, Consew P1206RB and Juki DNU1541 The premier 1206 has a better price and auto oiler. Can anyone explain the difference in these machine ? I have an Adler 205-370, is it possible to make this machine sew lighter fabric Softener, that would solve my dilemma and save me a bundle of cash! Thanks in advance, George Unionlevelleather.com
  8. kisskiss

    Need A Walking Foot Machine

    Hello, I am located in Calgary, Alberta Canada. I make bags using heavy canvas (usually coated with PU or oiled etc). Parts of the bags have two thicknesses of heavy seatbelt webbing sewn on. I currently use a Singer 491-clutch motor (with 69 bonded nylong thread and size 18 needle) and have to do alot of backtacking and stitch length manipulation to ensure that the strapping/handles are durable enough for the 35 pound bags. I now need to make bags that hold more weight and need to upgrade my machine to produce a durable product. I also work with leather and would like to start making leather bags and based on my research here think that the Adler 267 or Consew 206 would be a good choice/price for sewing Canvas and Leather products. I know that there are alot of other machines that would do the trick as well e.g. Pfaff, Reliable corp, Singer, Mach, Cowboy, Cobra but they seem to be really pricey. I would be perfectly happy with a super old machine that works well as long as the price is right. Servo/Sewpro may not be necessary as I am able to slow my current clutch motor machine enough for my needs. Please let me know if you have one of the above machines for sale or if you have a better recommendations and would be able to ship it here. Thanks so much, Arlene
  9. It's my new bag, made with oil canvas.
  10. Hey all, finished up the military inspired weekender bag for a friend. Really pulled together all my skills from leather and general sewing / construction techniques. Thoughts welcome! Herrman Oak Leather and Cone Mills White Oak Selvage Canvas. See the whole story at https://jimmieshardgoods.wordpress.com/2015/01/30/military-inspired-half-duffle-weekender-bag/
  11. Hey all.. I'm good with finishing the inside of seams on leather items, and good with finishing seams on canvas items.. But when I combine the two I run into issues.. I'm making a waxed canvas bag with a reinforced leather bottom.. and I want the seams finishing on the inside of the bag.. Does anyone have suggestions on finishing the inside seams? I could do a bound seam, but other styles that lay flat just won't work for both.. French seams, flat felled seams are great for fabric, too tough for leather.. Any thoughts? Thanks Todd
  12. RoosterShooter

    Singer 211G151 Questions

    A local gentleman is selling a Singer 211G151 with table and "The Works". He is asking $300 for it, and it is in good working order and a trusted individual. I have a Tippmann Boss for my leather holster and heavy leather needs, but am thinking about getting into garment leather goods like small bags, pouches, etc .... Will this machine work good for garment leather and even lightweight canvas?
  13. georgeandgracie

    Ways To Set Grommets

    What are the pros and cons of these grommet-setting tools? C.S. Osborne plain washer grommet setter (the kind with the cone-shaped anvil) - each size grommet requires one of these plus a hole cutter Stimpson 405 grommet press - each size grommet requires a die set, but no cutter (if used with Stimpson self-cutting grommets I will probably use two grommet sizes: 0 and 1, and will not be setting grommets every day. This is for waxed canvas items to be sold in an Etsy shop. My husband may also use the tool for leather items.
  14. I'd be very grateful for any helpful tips regarding the care of my (new this year) 16ft x 16ft canvas tent which I use at shows. It is currently drying slowly after the Great British Summer... unfortunately it is also covered in a variety of different kinds of mud - sticky clay, sandy mud and almost all the other varieties you can think of. Any suggestions as to how it might be cleaned without causing damage or affecting the tent's waterproof qualities? All ideas gratefully received! Thanks folks, Ray