Goldshot Ron

Randy, Could you take a photo of the back side also, and post it? Also, are you telling us ALL the steps you are taking. If you are doing it Oltoots way, it should come out just fine. For a torquing tool, I've used hammer handles, but my favorite tool is and old phillips screwdriver (don't know the size, but about 12" long) that I use also as a steel for sharpening my knives. Oh yeah, I suggest using a lighter weight filler on your horn cap. It reduces the bulky look of your horn. Ron

Check out YouTube to envision the process; however, I didn't see a real good presentation that is complete. If you don't have a drawdown stand, you'll need a stand that allows you to use your broom stick to weight down the stirrup leathers while they dry. Note: if blevens style buckles are used, the buckle pins should start out facing inward with the tail of the leathers wrapped around the stirrup bold. If the pins are mounted outward and the tail hangs free, you'll have to change the pin plate. Wet the buckle end of the leathers well, and dampen the fender some after twisting the leathers. This will lessen stain lines and allow the fender to also contour to fit the rider's leg better. Let's start here, and we'll tackle the tying of of the 1/2 saddle string later. Ron

My needle catches the top tread and pulls it down, the shuttle makes its pass downward and back up. During this movement, there is (what I call a stutter step) movement of the needle slightly upward; this should allow for the release of the top thread. IT doesn't release, and the shuttle is stopped by the thread still attached to the needle. At this point I cannot figure out any more ways to adjust the machine to properly release the thread from the needle. The problem has to be something simple that I am too blind to see.

Just wondering, did anyone ever hear back from nickyhorses? Since there was no contact phone number or email, it's hard to determine if this is a legit request.

Randy, Your saddle looks good. I like that it is not all roughout. Your seat looks smooth and the bead line looks good. It balances the tooling. I'm not going to offer any suggestions because everyone has a different reason for what they attempted than I. How long does it take to get a Swanke tree? I've heard many good comments about his trees. Is this a commission saddle? I'm waiting to see number 10. Ron

Next chapter, same saga....I purchased some polyester thread from Campbell Randall. Still having problems. After hours of trail and error, I have the problem down to the needle. The needle isn't releasing the top thread after the bobbin is shuttled through the loop. I have cleaned, oiled and adjusted everything in the shuttle/needle assembly. I had purchased a pack of needles and awls from Weaver a few years ago. They are tagged for Landis 3, so I hope they are correct. Any more suggestions from the experts? Thanks, Ron

Randy, I always leave the fenders attached, and fold them into the fleece under the saddle. I take the stirrups off and wrap them in scrap fleece, or cover with wrapping paper. I usually make a fleece boot to cover the horn. An UPS store is helpful when shipping also. Just make sure that the weight marking on the box is sufficiently heavy enough for your saddle. Great that you're shipping your saddles. Ron

I just have to chime in...Ken, you almost offended me. If I had to rely on real cow working horsemen (and horsegals), I'd never have work. They use grandpa's saddle: ripped, torn, and held together with baling twine, shoestrings, and super glue. One guy had a set of bulldog taps with a baseball size hole in the toe from the brush. He wondered if I could glue some scrap leather to cover the hole. Anyway, Dirty Dusty, you can cover the swell with rawhide if that is the look you want. I agree with Sioux, a lighter thickness will work easier. However, if you are going to stamp it, practice on the gauge leather that will work best for you. One last thing, if I recall, Stohlman lines his cantle backs, then covers it. I don't think this is necessary if using a heavier leather, but not too fleshy (belly area that may be too fleshy) because the glue won't stick well. Good Luck

Well guys, I had to look at my receipt for the machine.I bought my machine from Russ Jones in Aztec, NM. He has a little company called CRJ Ventures. Nice fellow.

Your machine is painted the same color as mine. The fellow that I bought mine from was rebuilding a second Landis 3.

Received my polyester thread order, but haven't set it up yet. Miles at Campbell/Randall also mentioned to pull the thread off the spool from the side, not spiraling upward as the new machines. Haven't tried that yet either. The serial number of this machine is 10786, last patent number was Nov. 28, 1911. Short history that I was told about machine: I purchased it from a fellow in Cuba, NM, who purchased it from Sheridan Leather when they closed, and they had purchased it from the King Estate. The machine has covered more ground than I have in my life; oh wait, it is around 109 years old, I still have time. Thanks for the info. Sioux.

Talked with Randall/Campbell today. Miles suggested that the thread brake blocks may be dirty or worn. He also said what I have heard before, to change from bonded nylon to polyester thread. The saga continues. Also, see photo one: what does this adjustment bolt do?

OK, thanks for the advice. I'll check the blocks. I am only testing on single ply 12/13 oz., I'll try two pieces. At least, I've oiled everything for the first time in a while.

I'll check the top tension assembly; however, it seems tight. I'm not quite sure how to really change anything in that upper configuration of blocks and wheels.

John, Photos would be nice if possible. I've done a few seats, and each one was different. Also, I usually hand stitch to line up the original holes on repairs. What type of padding are you using? How large is the padded area: full, half-seat, or insert? Ron

I have read most of the Landis 3 topics that I could remember reading in the past, and I have not found my solution. By playing with the machine, I have learned a lot, but cannot solve my issue. The problem started with the machine skipping stitches. Cleaned and oiled machine, changed thread, adjusted bobbin and still failure. After not using the machine for a year or more, I decided while social distancing I'd fix the darn machine. Problem: top thread does not tension around bobbin thread. There are loops hanging below the leather, and the machine bobbin shuttle hangs up due to the loose thread. The bobbin threads out easily, but the top tension doesn't pull the knot into the leather; thus a large loop forms. All of this happens within 3 cycles of the hook and awl. Any Landis experts out there? Called Campbell-Randall, but just left a message, maybe they are social distancing also. Ron

How are these attached to a saddle? Does the stirrup go through the loop with the buckle, and the fixed loop go on the saddle's leather hanger; or visa-versa?

I don't have anything to offer, but, what piece are you holding? It looks like the stirrup end of the fender. Or, is it the top part of the fender, and the leathers are actually cut inline with the fender so there is no connection between the two, just one piece fender going into the stirrup leathers. I just can't see from your photo. Just wondering, Ron.

As blue62 mentioned, after recovering the horn, you wrap the horn. After, installing the wrap, you won't see the metal horn. Any of the horn wing leather left, can be tucked down into the horn hole and flattened under the swell cover. How you secure the cap filler piece depends on the style of horn. I am assuming that blue62 has drilled holes through the horn cap to install the rivets. Ron

The photos you posted appear to be at the rigging plate and the rigging appears to be inskirt. These seams need to be resewn. This is done after removing the sheepskin (fleece). A cleaning solution that I use on oily-dirty saddles is made of: water, ammonia, and Ivory dish soap. I don't remember the measurements; but, mix just a few drops of soap (you don't want alot of suds) and ammonia to the smell test (smell it, but doesn't knock you out). This will remove the oily dirt and sweat. Also, a plastic putty knife can be used to scrape off this layer of gunk. Rinse well. Once the top grain is rubbed off, there are no tricks to bring it back. The photos appear that the saddle is well used, and you can't make it look new. You didn't list the makers name of the saddle, and that would help for further analysis. Hope this gives you some different ideas.

Well Ryan, if your saddle is No. 2, I would hate to compete against No. 1. For only your second saddle, it looks amazing. Your tooling looks well planned, and your swivel knife work is great. Tooling the back of the cantle is difficult at best, but you nailed it. I like how you stitched the flank cinch billet buckle holes; makes it look professional. The three judges are talented saddle makers, and you can trust what they said to be really good advice. Keep up the good work. Ron

What did you determine for tree size using the card system? I have no experience with the Dennis Lane System. Since many mules have shorter backs than horses, you may consider using Arab measurements. Another possibility would be to consider using a composite tree; like Chicago Stock Yards. I've build on one of their trees, and it went quite well. I feel your concern about doing the best you can, and what you make will be used. I suggest calling Timberline, Randy is the owner, and see what he says. Quality makes a very well made tree, and I do like their rawhide covering.

Randy, I'm not very good at this, but maybe you can succeed. Take a Dremel Tool and modify the stamp yourself. I've made my own geometric stamps and I've modified some round stamps. If it doesn't work, you are only out the Dremel cost and the cost of the practice stamp. Both items may equal the cost of one really good stamp. One of the best stamps for BW impressions that I have is Lonnie Height's (forgive spelling). Hidecrafter stamp impressions are also good for an inexpressive stamp, but their shanks bend over time. I'm on my 3rd. HC- BW, but the impression can't be beat. Anyway, I hope what you can find out there works for you. Good Luck. Ron

Dusty, I suggest you to change your title for this discussion, or start a new one that would have the title like "Building my First Mule Saddle". I think you would receive more advice, and easier for some of us (old farts) to follow. Ron

Well Dusty, This is always said to first timers on this site, pick up Vol. 1 of Stohlman's Saddle Encyclopedia. Read it cover to cover a couple of times. This will give you the basics and then some. His books only teach you how to do all leather groundseats, so his methods are somewhat dated compared to today's saddles. Search through this forum for saddle making and you'll find almost everything you will want to know. There are two tree makers that I suggest for information, solid trees, price, and quick service: Bowden Saddle Trees (Anthony, TX) and Timberline (Vernal, Utah). There are a whole bunch more that make great trees, and the prices only go UP. One last consideration you need to know (if you haven't thought of it) is rigging type and placement. Stohlman doesn't quite cover that, but I have photos of mule rigging that I have installed that might give you ideas. Old Toot on this site will be around to help also (a lot of knowledge there). Randy above is a saddle maker who participates in saddle making contests; he'll help too. Well, good luck and keep in touch.