Goldshot Ron

Try Montana Leather Company, they show them in stock, but they may be the same as Weaver's.

Hey Pard, you know how I always mention that you could finish off your horn better, well you nailed it. This saddle looks really good. Keep up the good work, and have a Merry Christmas.

I like how you are branching out from saddles; the scabbard looks great. Whose BW stamp did you use? The border stamp looks like an Ellis Barnes. I have to echo everyone else's compliments. Keep 'er up pard!!

I have made several sets of saddle bags, and when I do my gussets I use rubber cement to temporarily glue the seams together or clip them together to determine how everything will fit. It is hard to cut leather at right angles and expect everything to fit. This method allows you to make adjustments before sewing pieces together or braiding them together.

The patterns you may find are all similar, but yet different in how they may feel. What I suggest is to take an old pair of Levi's, ones that you are going to toss because of holes in the wrong places. Put them on, and with a felt marker draw on them where you will want them to fit. Example: how high in the front, how high around your butt; do they feel good, and is the lengths correct. Cut off the extra material and try them on again. This will be your basic pattern. Now you can add material for batwings, or fringe, whatever. I suggest this method because only after cutting the leather and making the chaps will you know if they fit you comfortably. And, they may not, and you have wasted leather. This process beats using paper patterns that are only a guess at fit.

Randy, It looks like it came out fairly well; but, I can now see the "leg cuts" on the swell. I'd like to see how you deal with them installing the final seat. It looks like it will be another challenge. Good luck.

John, I know nothing about balance-ride saddles, but with only 6 saddles under your belt, I would suggest that you are not ready to experiment. I built a knock-off of a Pat Perelli saddle, or at least the best I could from looking at photos on the internet. I was dissatisfied, and I believe the customer was also unhappy. This customer thought I could save him a couple thousand dollars, and I wanted the practice. His savings was not worth it to me, and it was a saddle that I would rather forget. Just my experience, Ron.

That back ring looks like it is for a britchen strap. It is too far back for a flank cinch dee. A good location, for a flank cinch billet, would be in-line with your concho at the edge of the cantle.

It sounds like to me that the saddle was made using cardboard as a filler and not leather. I have worked on saddles that had the same problem, but the owner was willing to pay to have the padded seat replaced, and at the same time I repaired the problem. I agree with Ole Toot, glue won't do much.

To do what you are suggesting: I would take a piece of leather larger than the spacing of your jockey's and double it over. You will have to trim the fold down to take a 1" dee. Punch your holes in the leather to match your jockey's lacing holes and lace everything together. The Dee piece would be attached to the underside of your jockeys. I wouldn't lace the dee directly to the jockeys because of the stress that would be placed directly on your lace. If this is what you are thinking, it will work. Let us know what you decided to do. Ron

What type of fleece is on the saddles: real wool, or imitation? What are the rigging plates made of: brass, stainless steel, or aluminum, or plated steel? Just looking at the stamping on the second photo looks like a saddle from the late to early 1960's. The first saddle could be older, but we still need to see more photos.

I complain a lot to myself, but seldom do anything about it. However, recently I did complain to a supplier about the leather that I received. It was supposed to be Grade A, but the neck and butt were useless. These sections were so hard, I couldn't cut them. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time that I have received hides that originated from this particular tannery that had hard spots (rawhide). Rolled out on the table the side looked okay, but setting out my patterns and cutting them was another matter. The company that supplied the sides was apologetic, but they aren't the tannery. Anyway, more people need to yell when something is wrong. Just my opinion.

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I have used this method, but I prefer a ring instead of a dee. I believe that a ring allows for a more even pull between the front and rear rigging attachment points. Your work is looking good so far.

Just saw your post again. The scraping is necessary, and it sounds like you have it figured out. I never thought of Dawn, it does work well on greasy dishes. Old school leatherworkers used Ivory because it wasn't as harsh as other soaps of it's time. To be honest, the important thing to do after cleaning with any product, it to put the oils back into the leather after cleaning. I've tried a lot of different oils and conditioners; and, I always go back to neatsfoot oil. But, use whatever you feel comfortable in using, and what works for you. So, how is the saddle you said you were building coming out?

Thanks Ed. I used his plain rigging rings for my last saddle and was impressed by them. I'll have to check out is plain B/C dees.

It appears to be a factory made saddle that someone stamped over the maker's mark. I could tell you that Jimmy Stewart used it in a 1954 western shot in Circleville, Utah, about a cowboy trying to do the right thing for his elderly father and mother. BUT, if it came from an auction in Oklahoma, that's about as good as the story will be. Often times, inexpensive factory made saddles are comfortable, you just don't want to rope a steer or pull a muley pack string using one.

Hey Ed, Just saw something else that tickled my interest; I like you breast collar dees. Where do buy your hardware. I buy most of my hardware from Weaver, but it would be nice to have something special, other than J. Watt's (which is nice, but somewhat too Southwestern for my taste). Thanks, Ron

Beautiful saddle Ed. What do you do to get your rough out parts so smooth, without the ragged fleshy areas? I see a lot of thought has gone into the planning and construction of this saddle. Thanks for sharing, Ron

Every saddle making book and CD will show you a different way to install a ground seat and cheyenne roll filler. I personally usually fall back to a version used by Stohlman. A leather ground seat or tinplate can be the same for either straight up or Cheyenne roll, once you have laid down the foundation. I suggest using Watt's method on installing the Cheyenne roll filler in the dish. This method is easier than Stohlman's. Cary Schwarz has a style where the filler goes down deeper into the seat, but I had problems using this method and went back to Watt's method. Also Ed, I've saved some of your photos for reference; thank you for sharing, I like your work. Ron

Yes they will. I have used them also on lighter weight leathers using light leather and nylon webbing.

On ringshank nails I start with a nail/tack puller just enough lift the nail to expose the head, then with a set of nail pliers pry the nails out slowly using leverage. Place a scrap piece of leather under the head of the pliers and rock the nail out. Worst case scenario you clip off the head. Then the leather lifts up and out of the way. Now you can use the pliers to grab more of the nail and rock it out. This way you don't rip the leather because you are finessing the nail out. I do not recommend you a Dremel tool because it will heat up the nail and burn the leather. Also, more chances of scaring the leather with the cutting head (been there, done that). Like Oltoot said, don't replace the nails with new ones, "you may have to repair it" some day.

I was going to agree with the other comments until you said it was Circle Y. They aren't my favorite saddle, but, it may be worth fixin'. Their trees are decent, and their construction is pretty straight forward. The swell cover will probably come off easily (well with some cussin'), but it is probably held on with just staples. Does it have in-skirt rigging? If it does, remove the skirts and what you need to repair should be easy to access. The gullet cover will probably come off easily also. Like Randy said, this will let you see what needs to be repaired. If it looks like a tosser, at least you have learned a lot about Circle Y's. If you continue exploring with the repair, keep us informed. I would like to know what you find. Ron

I believe Stohlman's book shows 3" wide leathers, so if your slots are a little too small for 3", go down to 2 1/2". I've worked on a lot of saddles with less than 2 1/2" wide leathers, and they have held up quit well.

RDL Makes some very good points. Now, I wonder how to place breast collar dees. Lately, I've been incorporating my dees in the latigo carriers. I seldom use clip (metal) and dees because the hole in the clip doesn't always line up where I what it, and drilling into stainless steel cost more in drill bits than it's worth. I do believe that breast collar dees should be attached to the tree and not to skirts and rigging plates. I usually use leather to attach the dees, and rawhide if the repair (original equipment) of a saddle calls for it. Also, for dees at rosettes for tying on stuff, I like to use rawhide. So, what did you decide on your fenders?