JLSleather

Actually, the comment about the thread was simply that the thread you are using is no doubt twisted together, for strength. Would there be a different result in a controlled test, under steady (probably hydraulic) pressure (no jerking motion) to see which fails first? Possibly. Git some scientist to do a test for tensile strength (google probably already has that info somewhere). But, if somebody says there's a difference in COW, that would be significant by wearing a belt, I would say BULL. Standard issue marketing spiel. The next guy will tell you ONLY use polyester thread. The next guy will say ONLY hand stitched ....

IF you "repeatedly" have people tell you, then they have someone "repeatedly" telling them. Do you KNOW this 'builder'? He's testing the grain in your leg -- by PULLING IT Leather does have a grain, and belts have been made going 'with' it and 'against' it an every other way. Head to tail is better. Period. FABRIC is often woven for strength. Because it's individual previously unconnected fibers, and strength IS added by running the fibers different directions. In the same way, twisted or braided strands increase strength -- the materials aren't stronger, but there's more material per inch (or foot, or whatever). Ask the braiding boys how much loss they have in length of a project, though there's not actually a 'loss'. Plus each is pulling against the next, adding to rigidity (at least temporarily). That machine you use got thread in it?... '

SPF a PU w CIH

It's the 'swing away' thing off a cobra 4 machine. Used twice (or was it three times) $50, and you pick it up.

True The question then is which is crazy(er) .. him for wanting it, or me for agreeing to do it! Boogers ...

When you've messed it up, 'n' fixed it, 'n' messed it up, 'n' fixed it... some call that "experience", just means you aint the new guy any more

Lookin' good. Ever have an issue with the ostrich shins pulling up (scales)? Seems like angling like that would tend to help with that.

So, the 'splitter' is actually a strap cutter?

Anybody got a pattern for a IWB 'pancake style' left handed holster with a 30° forward cant and free access to the hammer? No? Fine, guess I'll make my own Should be simple -- it's just solid black. Good thing he aint picky. OOOPS.. he says it should UNDER the belt, but OVER the pants. And slots - not loops. SHEESH -- no discounts on this one. I gonna need the whole $12.

We seem to have different opinions about what is "good" leather. The NAME on the receipt means nothing to me. I don't care which tannery it's from or who retails it, if anyone. Simply, with good leather, you can fold a billfold closed, and opening it will NOT cause waves and/or wrinkles. Belt buckles may cause a "kink", but not wrinkles. It has an even and continuous thickness - no weak spots. The back is not 'fuzzy' and the front is not 'grainy'. I sometimes wonder how many hides are sold, and later PRAISED by people who are so used to seeing junk leather that they think that's normal.

Yep. Not much strain on a knife sheath. I get a kick outta them boys talking about holsters needin' at least 277 thread, because [as the story goes] less than that could break if there was a "struggle for the weapon". To those who think that a holster can be pulled apart after sticking with contact cement and sewing with 207 thread -- SHOW me

Needle and thread size aren't really determined by leather thickness, so much as the intended use of the project. I've sewn 4 oz (2 layers 2 oz) with a 16 needle, 42 thread, at about 9 stitches per inch. 8 oz (2 x 2oz + 4oz) with 18 neeele, 69 thread 6-7 spi 8 oz (2x2ox + 4oz) same 22 needle 138 thread 6 spi 12 oz (8 oz + 4 oz veg) 22 needle 138 6 12 oz (8 +4 as above) 23 207 6 12 oz (8 + 4 as above) 24 277 6 I could go on, but you get the idea. Some of the selection of thread / needle size is just cosmetic - - different look. Your two layers of 4 oz could be stitched with 69 or with 346, and anywhere between, depending on what you want to do. And two layers of 10 oz is not so very much, and wouldn't require a "heavy" machine. It sounds like you need a "medium" range machine. As a rule with equipment, I like to cap the projects at about 60% of the machine capacity. If you need to sew 1/4" regularly, get a machine that will stitch 3/8" (without struggling). Personal opinion, i think the "heavy" machines you see around this site "could" do 6 oz leather with 138 thread. To get down lower than that would require considerations ... OH, and keep in mind that the distance from edges and the number of stitches per inch must be considered. Larger thread requires a larger needle, and a larger needle requires a longer stitch length to avoid weakening the leather with holes too close together.

So, you use a brush, to brush something on the leather - but not on the background and not in these "cuts'. Something not sinking i here - Couldn't you do the same thing with the dye?

I don't buy sides for belts. The length just isn't very effective, unless you also make something that lets you use shorter pieces.. holsters, collars, etc. At somewhere between 6 - 7 feet long, they way long for one belt and too short for two. Still, nice to make the belt and holster from the same hide, so they match. IDEALLY, bends would be the best leather (all else equal). But many belts have been made just fine from double shoulders. To get to the point of your question... Bend might run in the 11-12 foot range, and cut about 15-18 belts (1.5"). Figure the bend from a good size side is about 25-27" wide Dbl SHoulder might run anywhere 10-15 feet. Find one a good 55-60" wide, good fer belts. Good size one might then be 24-34" across (shoulder to neck). Trim teh very bottom edge to straighten, and trim teh rough of the neck off, and a guy git maybe 15-18 belts (1.5" wide). Keep in mind with shoulders, the ends might be a bit thinner and less firm, but if you stay on the 60"-ish side you can trim that mostly. Decent leather gonna run recently $9-10 per foot, so you lookin at (ballpark, dependin on size and shape of hides) prolly $125 for double shoulders .......... figger 16 straps ..........so $8 ish per $150 for bends (they'll charge more per foot) .... 16 straps .........$9.25 ish per $200 for a side ............... 16 straps ..............$12 ish per .......... but youll have the belly and a single shoulder for whatever else you make... This is the safe side. With a side, you might get 20 straps, or if you need 30-32" belts, you might get more out of one side.

Well, i gotta ask. How do you plan to get the "resist" on there?

Well, this is not encouraging. I've been thinking the same thing lately -- about the HO I've been seeing. There's some good leather, but the waste factor is WAY too high. Some of the HO sides I've seen lately have had rough flesh sides, "spongey" shoulders, very loose grain toward the belly (but not actually the belly, which is largely useless), and even some unexplained white "marks" on the top - some of which took dye and some didn't. And these were all "A" and "B" hides. So, I've been considering going back to using W/C again, but perhaps not now!

Hardly quite done, but perhaps they sumthin helful init

We just returned two 8/9 backs of HO to springfield -- WAY too much waste factor. I understand that "B" grade isn't flawless (that's why it's "B") but that was ridiculous. You'd be lucky if you could use HALF of that leather. The ONLY thing good about that whole deal was they accepted it back without issue. 'Course, that means UPS got paid twice, but SCL made nothing and we don't have 8/9 oz.

A little perspective... Leather going up by 80¢ / ft means that your standard size holster has an increased cost of $1 (assuming a 15-20% waste factor), a 2-layer belt goes up $1.50, etc.

Not sure what happened to the picture of the back of this one. It's a Ruger, but not the right one

Someone always going on about holster patterns. But, the 'stories" and "facts" run as wide a range as the "right" way to measure a belt. I personally don't see where the difficulty lies, except perhaps the hype created by 'professionals" trying to convince you they're doing something you can't. Seriously, some of these people will have you standing on the left foot facing northwest in the morning arguing about nylon vs poly. Here's the short version -- to fit snugly and prevent weapon movement, the inside of the leather would be the same size as the outside of the gun. That sounds too simple, because it IS. Amazing how many people miss that. Seriously, anyone who's ever used a real or dummy gun to form a holster SHOULD have realized that. Leather has some natural "forgiveness" built in, so it's not necessary to measure every millimeter. Some of the larger Glocks are good for examples -- since they are basically a rectangle "'this much by this much". With a revolver, it's the same idea, but instead of a flat surface you have a radius (actually, it's called cylinder because it's a cylindrical). Now, just a bit of "tech" stuff, which is in it's own paragraph so people can bypass it if they like "Theoretically", the width of the leather for the Glock (let's use a model 19 jus for example, those seem popular these days) would be 5.1" (like a rectangle roughly 1.5" x 1.050"). In the same way, lets say that the cylinder on the Ruger is Ø 1.56" (which is close depending on machine tolerances). This makes the measurement around 4.90". Where things sometimes get screwed up, I think, is that some forget that this is the measurement on the INSIDE of the holster. This ignores even MORE technical stuff that would be considered for higher production -- like fold lines and bend radii. For those who can't see why that matters, I don't think I can help you. Once you have this "wrap", then belt slots / loops / sweat shields / straps / etc. can largely be whatever size and location you like (within reason). And, structurally there is no benefit gained or lost by how sharp the stitch line turns. From a maker standpoint, it's a tad quicker to run a small curve simply because you avoid the necessity of exact stitch placement (which usually means slowing down a bit). I have a sharp turn at the tip of ALL of my belts -- never had one break there Now then .... Since it seems to be some type of closely guarded secret - here's yet another tip. Everybody loves to go on about how the Glock 17 and the model 22 can be made with the same dummy. Someone will chime in a second later to say thats also good for the model 31. Fair enough. What some don't say (some don't know, others don't want to say) is that the Glock models 19, 23, and 32 are EXACTLY the same, with the exception of being about 1/2" shorter (well, officially like 16 mm). All the difference is is the muzzle end (triigger area and slide no different), so that same glock 17 mold can be used to make holsters for all 6 pistols Oh, wait... the compact models 26, 27, 33 are ALSO the same 'around' dimensions, everywhere except the muzzle end. Those subcompacts don't have 'rails', and the base is just a tad wider - I'm talking like .03". Just the frame under the slide -- the slide itself is not different, except shorter (by about 5/8"). So now, we have a pattern that can be used for NINE pistols, simply by cutting the end longer or shorter. Due to that extra bit of 'beef' on the subcompact muzzle end, once formed it would be a tad loose at teh bottom on the other models. Basically, I mean you could get the models 22 holster to form to the 27, though a bit of stretch would make it not so great fit on teh 22 any more. BUT, if you had a 22 pattern, made the holster, and then formed it with the 27, you'd be fine -- this is my point.

That actually doesn't look that far off. The circles would be a combination of foot pressure and "smooshy" leather (probably not possible to entirely eliminate this effect). Beyond that, the holes look quite large for the thread... try larger thread or smaller needle.

Nope. You've made 'avenger' holsters before - this one not so very different. A little less 'square' than a rig for a pistol, but ....