LAPat

Where is the money in leatherwork?

82 posts in this topic

Hello all

I have three wholesale customers for my sheepskin pet toys and leather leashes, but small ones. This is not my primary source of income. I am a dog trainer and work at a pet store (and at Starbucks part time for the insurance benefits...). Needless to say, I have a lot on my plate.

I am in the process of deciding where to put my time, business wise.

I have a lot of questions about the leatherworking business. I hope I am not being impolite, since I've been told that people don't always like talking about money... at least their own:>))

Here goes.

Where is the money in leatherwork? Who is making a very good living and why? My guess is that small goods made quickly and easily as well as high end artisan driven projects are the two areas of greatest success. And I am asking about the individual craftsperson, not the Weaver Leathers of the world.

How many people who are doing a decent business start to farm out work and what kind and why? When does it become a factory and not a hand made art?

What can a decent craftsman make in a year if he has a shop, or a website, or does fairs? Are there other venues for sales?

Where is the cost in leatherwork? What does it require as an investment for tools and materials? I'm interested in all fields, from bootmaking and saddlery to tooled items and of course dog and horse tack.

I know these are big questions and I'm trying to get a sense of the entire field, but this is a fairly occult field compared to say, accounting, and the information is mostly passed, like the craft, from master to apprentice. Or are there sources for business information out there that someone can point me towards.

Thanks in advance

LA Pat

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Hi Pat,

If you do make a living from leatherwork, you will be one of the three or less percent that do. Most of us that do leatherwork either hold a full or semi-full time job (day job) or are retired, or are both. Anything we make is gravy, or a way to justify the tools etc.

for someone near you who does it for a living try:

Phil LeDuc

Stonehedge Leather Co.

1967 Abbott Street

San Diego, CA 92107

1-888-805-9690

cowcutter@aol.com

His is a storefront business, not a home business.

To be sucessful, you will have to devote half of your time to leatherwork, half to promotion, and half to running the business; you do the math.

It is reasonable to expect that you would specialize in some discipline and I can name a few:

Saddlery and tack (to include canine and feline),

Handbags and Luggage,

Holsters and Cowboy gear (can combine with duty gear),

Duty Gear (police equipment)

BDSM and Fetish gear,

Upholstery (furniture, automobile, motorcycle, different disciplines really),

High Art,

Re-enactment gear.

Any one of the above can work out ok, but a good solid knowlege of the field is a must not only to produce high quality gear, but for promotion and rapport with customers. You also have to have the chops to make good quality gear or you will get wipped by someone importing Asian junk. The only real way to compete is with quality or novelty, and if you come-up with something novel, the Asians will knock it off in a heartbeat.

It will be much harder to promote and market whatever you do then it will be to make it. Don't even think of manufacturing in quantity until you can sell everything you can make. College courses in marketing at the local CC will help a lot as business is business.

Basic leatherworking skills and knowlege in your discipline are you most expensive assets, machines will make you faster, not better, but faster will be necessary if you are going to make life easier.

To answer all your questions would require a book which I am not up to right now. I'm in the 97%, I have a day job.

Art

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I'm reminded of a club meeting years ago, where the presenter was asked if he made a living as a full time artist. His response was.....

"My definition of a full time artist is someone who's wife has a job".

All fun aside, what ever you decide to make which is your passion, make sure you make a lot of 'bread and butter' high volume items to pay the bills while you wait on that one customer to buy the big dollar items you have made. Unfortunately, that means a lot of dollar key fobs or a lot of crappy repair jobs. peace.

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Hmmm....well....uh....it's hard to say. Let me relate a little of what my experience has been.

We started out with the custom motorcycle stuff. Timing was good - was the only one within miles of here that did it - did quality stuff. Got beat to the ground by the mass production vendors.

Then got dragged into the holster business by a friend. I was the maker and he was the technical expert. We worked together in that role for a little over a year until I bought him out.

As stated above, you have to, have to, have to be knowledgeable about the product you're making. You have to be able to make a reasonably high quality product in order to be able to sell it. Do not, do not, do not compromise in that respect. Enthusiasm/genuine interest in what you're doing/making translates into additional sales. Marketing/advertising can be a real gamble. You ideally want to target the customers you're trying to sell to, but that doesn't alway guarantee success. For example, we advertise in a periodical that goes out to 15,000 law enforcement officers each month. How many orders have I gotten from that? 0. Don't know why, can't explain it, it's just what the facts are. So you live and learn.

Word of mouth by your customers is going to be your biggest avenue of advertising. It will make you or break you.

A little bit of diversity in what you make lends to the bottom line as well (helps break the monotony of it all, too). There's a realistic limit to that though. I'd like to be able to make other things - some of which has been portrayed by other members here on the forum - but I just do not have the time to do it. So it's a compromise of sorts. Once in a great while, I'll sit down and do something that I want to do for myself or do something for a customer way outside of what I normally do.

Do some research (as you're doing here) with respect to what part of the industry, i.e., horse tack, pet supplies, is going to bring you the greatest opportunity for success. You have to look around at what's available to you in your immediate geographical area, as well as beyond that. You have to be willing to do the "cold calling" type of sales in order to publicize your product. Attend any trade shows available to your specific facet.

The use of a website is essential to the advertising of your product. Keep it as simple and direct as you can. Don't make people click through umpteen pages to find the essentials of what you make/sell. Keep it as informative as you can without getting really verbose. Provide the best quality photos that you can. The pics of your products is the first look people have of you. If the pic is of poor quality, then the association is going to be that the product is of poor quality, too.

You want to obtain the best possible equipment that you can afford. As Art pointed out, in essence, it's really how the user makes the equipment perform that gives you the quality product. A good case in point for us happened a couple of years ago. We were asked to make some stuff for a young girl who was into the Star Wars reenactment stuff, and her and her family were going to the Star Wars convention in Indianapolis. At the time, we had some machines that some would consider lesser quality in comparison to others out there. Long story, short here is that we made the best possible items we could and the young girl ended up winning first place in the children's division of the costume contest and beat out a number of others.

I'd recommend getting involved with any type of business training classes you can (if you don't have that experience). This was all pretty much new to me when we started 4.5 years ago, so nearly all of it I've learned along the way. The more information/resources you have to draw from, the better off you'll be. A lot of cities/counties have basic business courses you can sign up for.

I think some people in this industry aspire to have their own business, but have no real plan or goals on where to go, and how to get there, once they take that step. If you want to garner success, you've got to have some type of plan on how and where you want to go next, both short term and long term. It can, and most likely will, be slow going at first. But if you pay attention to what's going on around you with respect to the particular facet of the industry you go into, it will pay off.

I started out working out of a converted closet in our home. We moved into a 1,000 sq foot shop a year ago. I'm busting at the seams now. We have been very fortunate at what our success has been over these few years. I personally do not want to go much larger than what we are currently, because I want to keep it small.

Best of luck to you, and I suspect you're in for a wild ride! :thumbsup:

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:sign23:

Great topic.

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Very good topic and answers!!! thanks everyone :biggrin:

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When I see some of the work on this site, I have to wonder what artisans are charging for their pieces. The collars set with stones, the incredible saddles, the braided work. How many hours goes into a piece and how does that translate to dollars? I know that I make a good profit on my dogs toys because I can make them fast and they are often made from scraps. But I don't know what I would charge if something took me sixty hours...

I think anyone who works hard on a business should be making good money from it. Why not? But I also believe in general people undersell their work when it's a labor of love and a craft. I also think when you take the leap and charge well, the buyers come. I mean I make little tiny fur mice and sell them for thirteen dollars a piece. Not three. And I can make a dozen in an hour from scrap. Even at six fifty wholesale I can make twelve an hour. And I don't think it's great money, but it's enough to keep building the business and experimenting until I come up with that product that I can do exceptionally well with. And because I am innovative by nature, and a trend watcher, I have faith that day will come.

My experience has also been that the biggest profit is in the use of small pieces of fur and leather. I use all my scrap for something, including wool for stuffing toys. I have a hard time with precise accounting for projects because so much of what I do is from "leftovers". But I know that I am doing alright.

Like I said, I don't have a lot of experience and I still don't know what someone can make for a beautiful custom saddle or bridle or collar. I see lots of leather tack for dogs on the internet so cheap that I know I can only find a niche if I find a way to make the product uniquely mine. And don't laugh, I think Martha Stewart is a great role model except for the prison bit. She knew how to go from a service business to product to licensing her name.

As I go from dog training, to dog product, to... who knows? It's fun to dream big. And I even think leathercraft is a great field because there is so much room for innovation. For instance, why isn't anyone pitching Martha Stewart on a leathercraft project? It doesn't have to be carving. It could be braiding or something very simple like a key ring. Seriously. I don't have the rep to do it yet. But someone on this list probably does...

On the other hand, Art is right. It's easy to get ripped off if you have a new idea. You have to get it out fast and big if it's really original and can be mass produced... But you can't force originality. The muse has to give you the gift and you (I) have to be patient until it comes...

Just wanted to keep contributing to the thread. Hope I don't sound too pie in the sky.

L.A. Pat

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Oh but here is the other shoe.....

We are living in what I like to call the "Walmart Generation". Most people don't know the value of what they are buying. Be prepared to hear "That's too much. I can get the same thing at ......". A bonded leather belt at Walmart may be ten bucks and that is all they will see. Don't give in though, charge what you need to charge. Just be prepared to wait on the right customer. peace.

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Chiming in here with an observation on pricing...

If you have that quality product (and the audience for it) the price can go from

O.M.G You want HOW MUCH for THAT!!

to

You know for the work involved, that isn't too bad a price.

to

Here's the money --- GIMMEE

and that little bit can play out inside of 3 heartbeats.

But yes it IS the Wal-Mart Generation, and the only way to combat it is with educating your customers as to the effort it takes to make something. If you work at it a little you can surprise yourself with how many ways to tell a person HOW LONG it took you to make something.

Without flat out saying "look - It took me 20 hours to make, I am not going to sell it to you for 5 dollars"

Mom used to crochet doilies for the dollhouse and we used to tease her about how many ball games it took to make something. Well if a custumer "overheard" You could see the wheels spinning and turning "dollars to hours" and forked over the money and called the product cheap.

Or if they start the "I can make THAT" speach. HELP them understand the outlay just to start - play dumb - tell them where to find the best price on tools. (Telling them the price of course) I must have bought 3 hundred dollars worth of colored pencils for my projects. I had the best colors (Prismacolors rock! ) Pretty soon they relize that they are in over their head and fork over the money and call it cheap.

You really have to practice though to get the right amount of "dumb" in those speeches though.

In the SCA there was a merchant who used to sell leather ring belts

-- By The INCH --

What he didn't say at first was that he measured them width wise not lengh wise.

The look on the face of most people when they had this zillion inch belt in their hands was pricless.

Well gee 20 dollars for a 2 inch belt doesn't seem so bad after that now does it? (this was 15 years ago BTW)

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This is usually an unpopular reply but your best way to answer your questions is to do a business plan. There are many local resources for developing a business plan and some online resources including software. If you can answer the quesitons in a business plan adequately you will have your answers as to whether you can make it in your business or not. For me leatherwork is a portion of a diversified income stream from different sources and now, after years of hard work, I have the time and the resources to do pretty much what I want.

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This is usually an unpopular reply but your best way to answer your questions is to do a business plan. There are many local resources for developing a business plan and some online resources including software. If you can answer the quesitons in a business plan adequately you will have your answers as to whether you can make it in your business or not. For me leatherwork is a portion of a diversified income stream from different sources and now, after years of hard work, I have the time and the resources to do pretty much what I want.

The thing about doing a business plan is that it guides you in terms of the questions you need to answer, it doesn't have any of the answers for you.

Pat's questions are the kind that one finds in business plan models. The trick is where to find answers to these kinds of questions. One way is to do exactly what has been done here, ask others in the industry about their experience.

I'm way too much of a beginner myself to have any really useful insights, but part of what I'm doing is looking within a niche market for gaps that are not being adequately filled. If I can step into the gaps, I've got a chance to pull some money without having to compete as hard as if I step up with products that are already being commonly produced.

From that base, I hope to bootstrap into somewhat larger markets, while continuing to build my skills and watching for product opportunities.

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LA Pat,

I have been making and repairing leathergoods for people since I was in high school, but I have only owned a full retail, custom, and repair shop for four years. When I made the decision, after college, to go into the leather business full time I had no idea how challenging it would be.

Art mentioned "half your time to leatherwork, half to running the business, and half to promotion." This could not be any more true. I have a lot to learn yet at my stage of business ownership, but the one thing I do know it that you have to concentrate on all three of those aspects in order to be successfull. And in doing this you spend an unmeasurable amount of time trying to develope and grow every part of your business.

I came into this as an aspiring artist and craftsmen that wanted to make a living doing what I truely have a passion for. What I soon found out (and am still learning) is that you have to work on becoming good at all aspects of the business, not just the art side.

I have many friends that own other businesses (lawyers, veterinarians, farriers, horse trainers/clinicians, hunting/fishing guides, etc...) and their goals, successes, and struggles are not that different from this industry's. I think all industries have potential for success and/or failure. The only thing different between the other areas of the industry and the one that you decide to dive into, is YOU. If you are willing to devote the time, and you have the "want" to be the best in that market, then you should be able to make a living doing that.

As far as what a craftsmen can make money wise, I am still too young in the business to tell you that. I do know that the man I learned to build saddles from was full time in this industry(and still is) for 40 years...he seemed to be doing as well as any other. I think that you have total control over what your base salary is, and that is any time you own a business. If you do the kind of work people appreciate and you fill a need within your selected community, then you can name your price. I agree that many charge too little for their work, I do that on occasion. I believe that we all sometimes look at it in a way that "If I am too high then I won't get the job and I'll lose money." When really all we're doing at that point is adding expenses and not adding any income. I finally started looking at it like this "Wouldn't I rather not have any work and not make any money rather than having a pile of work that is costing me money?" Charge for your work and people will gladly pay you for it.

I am not sure if any of this helps you or not but those are my thoughts. Good luck in making this life changing decision...NO PRESSURE.

Don

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I just want to say thanks to all that replied to this post. The information was thoughtfully presented and helpful.

Lowell

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In my very limited experience, the guy making all the money is the guy I'm buying my leather stuff from!

I would guess just have a good plan, and if possible, have a fall-back plan if things don't take off right away.

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...Art mentioned "half your time to leatherwork, half to running the business, and half to promotion." This could not be any more true. I have a lot to learn yet at my stage of business ownership, but the one thing I do know it that you have to concentrate on all three of those aspects in order to be successfull. And in doing this you spend an unmeasurable amount of time trying to develope and grow every part of your business....

We are at a different end of the industry, but ours is a family business and we feel the pressures all small businesses do.

If you want to spend your time as a leatherworker, i.e. turn your hobby into a business, just so you can do leather work, go to work for someone else. You will spend a lot of your time as bookkeeper, marketing exec, purchasing agent, shipping clerk, customer service rep, psychologist, quality control supervisor, chief engineer.... I think you need to by slightly skitzophrenic to run a small business. If you can handle these additional pressures, and have the drive to be good at what you do, go for it.

My only thought is find a niche and be good at it. Try to be the best at what you do, and adapt with the times. To be profitable in custom leather, you can't make a living selling the same product everyone else dose, and you'll go broke trying to undercut the generic retail chains. Find something people want, make it good, and charge what it is worth.

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My only thought is find a niche and be good at it. Try to be the best at what you do, and adapt with the times. To be profitable in custom leather, you can't make a living selling the same product everyone else dose, and you'll go broke trying to undercut the generic retail chains. Find something people want, make it good, and charge what it is worth.

Well expressed.

~J

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I struggle everyday with the niche/generalist problem.Some may agree with my observations, others may not, but here's a few of my thoughts.

There are a zillion factors in establishing leatherworking as a business. There are people who have been working full time at it for decades, That's the true path. Time.

The western style of leatherworking is the Traditional jump off point, here in the US. Whether it's boots and saddles, rope cans, or Motorcycle seats, the carvings become all important. Then break that down into styles, like Sheridan or Floral. Break it down further to the personal touches of individual makers, and you have a robust, but very competitive market.

Every niche, be it holsters, sheathes, biker, or BDSM has a price to pay. You have to be, or become immersed in that particular field you choose. Live in the city, never owned a horse...good luck establishing a tack repair business. Never rode a motorcycle, or don't own one...same problem.

Start with the familiar. Whose in your circle? Is it the WOW folks? Or how about Office workers? You know better who it is exactly in your world. To me, that's where you begin. Whatever comes your way, you'll have to make it. From Portfolios to dog harness, there is a deep breadth of products, but each one takes some experience to make it quality. It's one thing to be a biker, jump into motorcycle leather, and make a living. It's another to have only a year or two under your belt, and try to become an expert in a particular field/niche. At first, being a generalist will make you a better craftsman. Each niche, each product has a particular skill or knack to it. The more general work you do, the more skills you develop and master. That's just common sense. Should you choose a niche from all that work, you'll only be a better Maker after the experiences.

The career path is another way. Attend boot and saddle school or hook up with a saddlemaker. Work your tail off for some years, then branch out on your own.

Should you hope to take a hobby and build it into a full time business, a lot depends on your local area, and it's potential. Some bypass that, and go primarily on the Web. Either way is a tough row at first.

But the first thing I would suggest is to figure what hourly rate you need, be it $12 an hour or $30. All your product pricing is based on that, NOT the competition. For a very long time you will base things on that, but probably only make a tenth of what you hoped for. When you are in business, it's the PRODUCTION level that decides your success. If you make $200 belts, you have to have the market, and the ability to make them often enough, and good quality enough to succeed. Only being able to do make one and sell it every three weeks will not pay the grocery bill. Sell belts at $24 and you may be able to make that type of belt quicker, but you have to build a bigger market for all those $24s to add up.

There's plenty of business advice on this forum, and the web to help establish a pricing/production/marketing schedule, but be careful, there is nobody that has the perfect answer to your particular situation. It might be rock solid business advice, but if it always worked, there would would never be business failures.

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Every niche, be it holsters, sheathes, biker, or BDSM has a price to pay. You have to be, or become immersed in that particular field you choose. Live in the city, never owned a horse...good luck establishing a tack repair business. Never rode a motorcycle, or don't own one...same problem.

Dave, you forgot to say if you've never been hung from the rafters, or hung someone else......LOL

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Excellent replies to this.

I am trying to start my business too, and after a year I am not much further into it, certainly not enough to live from it.

I don't have a day job so time is on my side, I can sit around all day drawing out new designs and plans of promotion etc.

After a recent recap of my methods this was my new plan.

Find all the expensive selling places in the area, be it pet store, sex store, tack shop novelty items or what. Find out what they sell in detail, take pictures, make notes and think about it all.

I was in a novelty shop selling all sorts of high quality irish gimmicked goods. Celtic knot work tables and chairs, sterling silver, paintings etc.

They also sell beads, beads which I can use to enhance my own range of bracelets, Using those beads I struck a deal, he will basically buy outright my stuff using his own bead selection, which I will be buying from the manufacturer directly. I am hoping to pump the range in that by displaying plain versions beside his beaded versions.

I also showed my full portfolio of work, whips, necklaces, torch handles, bracelets, books... 55 pictures in all. Got an fairly interesting discussion out of it, which I hope he will remember next time he has people ask relevent questions...and then point my way.

A travelling continental market is another way I hope to branch out my name. I made a friend on one of them who sells reindeer hides with his wife. We got talking about fire steels, bushcraft, knives and all sorts. The last time they were here, I was randomly looking around the market, and he popped in between me and someone else shouting great things about my leather work. I am hoping this year he can put some of my stuff in his truck and see if sells back home.

My partner's sister is a vetenery nurse, for the spring, we intend to put a small catalogue of sample dog leads in there to advertise goods. With any luck that might also pay off.

My partner works in an office for the govt, so we sent in a sample braided book and an order page for christmas sales, with a 50% deposit it's guaranteed by christmas. We also offered free name carving. In one day I got enough orders to buy all the materials for the goods wanted. I am looking to find other friends in similar working enviroments.

A DJ friend of mine is regularily across the water in the gothdam of england, nottingham as a DJ. I am arranging with her to have flyers dropped of and maybe run a stall too.

I have had very long discussions with my friends on making budget stuff, and for months I was going to, but I am a braider, I have pride in my work, work which took me a long time to make and a long time to learn, three years professionally in leather work included with 12 years practice and experimentation.

I have compromised by offering cheaper materials in some cases. the new leather knot bracelet range is prime example. from top quality hand cut braided cords used to make continuos knots right down to 1mm round lace versions.

If we get the market stall up and running I had another idea...Leave out the belly of a whip secured to a frame of some variety if possible with 16 strands of lace ready to go. and let customers try it themselves. With any luck they will see straight away how difficult and time consuming it is there by justifying expenses.

My expertise is most definately in braided goods, my carving is a lot on the needing work stage, so in order to improve this, I am trying to sell products which can incorporate this eventually ie notebooks, This way I should always have scraps to practice on which i have been. Like wise with all materials. I am trying to maximise the possibilites of product outcomes using the same materials in different ways. I can reduce the need to get supplies from 20 different sources saving me money on postal costs. and time on sourcing cheaper.

No one in my area offers carved leather goods of the quality on this forum, whether or not theres a market for it I don't know but I hope to find out in a few years. In the mean time I will continue to search for cheaper better raw materials, making my own tools when possible and when needed. and save all the scraps I can because one day they will all have a use. I even save the hair of the back of my laces when it's been cut.

Oh one more thing, jewelry has one of the largest mark ups in price in the market, BDSM goods probably get shoved in in a close second. If this is acceptable behaviour for everyone else and you can do it and get away with it, go for it. Thing is, braided whips are far more often worth exactly what their worth and not marked up much at all...go figure.

Anyway, theres a few of my plans, and I hope it helps.

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All the replys above are spot on. They attest to the diverse scope of what you can do and where you can make some dinero. I will add one thing that I recently got into, and while it is not what I really like to do, it sure helps pay the bills while I putz at what I really like (making saddles). That is the tack repair business at the local race track. I had the luck to be where they opened up a new race track, and by chance I got a call to do some repairs on an excersize saddle for one of the trainers there. What I found out was that there was no one there and they really needed someone. During the racing season, there are anywhere from 600 to 1200 horses housed and trained there. That many horses tear up a lot of stuff. The trick for me was that I realized that the trainers and workman there are too busy to stop and bring you tack everytime they break something. They will find some way to tie it together, or throw it in a tack box and it will stay there till they throw it out, however; if you go to them, which I did ( I actually take a wheel barrel and go through all the barns. They load me up when they find out they don't have to do anything other than reach in the box and give it to you), they will clean out that tack box and pay fair prices to get it fixed and returned to them . That way they don't have to take the time to go to the tack store to get stuff replaced. The key is to remember, these are people that need their stuff to make their living, and it is a service that you provide that helps them do that. This has really worked for me, they keep me busy full time from May to October, and now I am getting work from them that spills past the racing season. A word of caution, make sure all your customers know that it is a cash on the barrelhead business. "No tickey no washy". If your work is good quality, you will also find yourself making a lot of belts, chaps and leggins for the excersize riders. This worked for me.

Good Luck,

Bondo Bobs Custom Saddles

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Pete, I have to say that is exactly how I've been running my small business making reenactment stuff. Now, THAT'S a niche market.

It's very important to keep your eyes and ears open for opportunities, and to always, always yak it up with people. Shmoozing is an honorable, and smart way to conduct business. I'd like to give an example that led to my alltime best day for sales. I was a merchant at a small show...tiny show...organized by a local college drama dept. I did it just for the fun of supporting the efforts of some college students, without much hope of turning a profit.

While there, I saw a flier for another event commemorating Hermann the German's victory over the Roman legions in the year 9. It was a very long shot, as there would be few reenactors there, but a lot of middle aged Germans. Well, I sold SEVEN helmets at the one day event, and even more sales later! My previous best was 3 in a weekend.

Many of my sales have come from taking the time to just talk with people. Y'gotta listen and ask questions more than you talk. There are a lotta talkers at these shows...my wife and I call 'em "monologuers". Don't be one.

I've added some cool items to my list of products over the last 5 years, mostly in the $25 to $65 range, and some of them are very popular. They're in a good niche that was vacant.

One item, though, I spent untold nimbers of hours perfecting, and I've only sold a half dozen of them in 2 years. Well, I'm saving the other dozen, just waiting for the right event to come along.

I'm rambling.

Doug

I'm way too much of a beginner myself to have any really useful insights, but part of what I'm doing is looking within a niche market for gaps that are not being adequately filled. If I can step into the gaps, I've got a chance to pull some money without having to compete as hard as if I step up with products that are already being commonly produced.

From that base, I hope to bootstrap into somewhat larger markets, while continuing to build my skills and watching for product opportunities.

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I have been doing it for 3 years....

I have orders come in everyday.. I do mostly costume stuff for people all over the world. No advertising. I feel very lucky. Last year I did over $30,000 for the year, which was my 3rd year of leather crafting. It gets higher every year by a few thousand.

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Hey guys,

I don't wanna be the party pooper, or the spoilsport or whatever, but the ones I know who made a living or better said tried to make a living out of making leather stuff, had to go back to their old jobs because they couldn't bear the costs anymore after a while. For that even a good bizzplan can't always tell ....

But you can always try ;-). Good luck anyways!

Gunter

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So, Mr. 99 cent taco, You make $30,000 a year doing this, after only 3 years? Got a website someone can look at? Hmm, pardon me while I roll up my pants cuff.

Doug

Hey guys,

I don't wanna be the party pooper, or the spoilsport or whatever, but the ones I know who made a living or better said tried to make a living out of making leather stuff, had to go back to their old jobs because they couldn't bear the costs anymore after a while. For that even a good bizzplan can't always tell ....

But you can always try ;-). Good luck anyways!

Gunter

Edited by Daggrim

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doug,

I had no meaning to be mean, but where I live, in europe, there is no real market for just leatherwork. I know the thing in some countries is different.

Sorry if I madeyou mad.

Gunter

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