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dikman   

Thanks Mike,  most interesting. I recall learning something about this process a long time ago, but I'd forgotten most of it (didn't have any practical use for it). I know that some custom motorcycle artists still use gold leaf. The clear coat applied first when building up the transfer makes sense and perhaps explains why no clear coat is applied afterwards (which would simplify the manufacturing process).

Parfektionisto, good luck with trying to replicate the original. Based on what Mike has said, with it being built up of multiple layers, it would be a very labour-intensive process and, I suspect, require quite a bit of skill to get it right - which could = $$$$.

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20 hours ago, mikesc said:

Agree with jimi, the floral decorations on the 45K have the shading ( known as "halftone", like the way Black and white newspaper photos were printed ), so the lettering would have had it too, it is either worn out , or the angle that the photos are taken from doesn't allow for the "halftone" to be visible on the lettering..If you imagine the way that a decal is made..

 

This is how you make a gold foil decal with linework ( maybe some colour ) and some "shading".

 

From the sewing  machine surface side outwards..

"Size layer" layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer and to hold onto the surface that the decal is being applied to..in the Singer movie the woman wets the surfaces first, which makes me think that this lowest size layer is made with water ( or something dissolved in water ) activated glue or size varnish..Then again it may have been a bowl of "solvent" that she had ( and a more sticky solvent activated substance used in that size layer ? )..exposure to chemicals and dangerous substances and work conditions safety was not a consideration then..You got injured at work, if you could no longer work, you might get a "one off" small payment from the company, if you were lucky..and then you had to fend for yourself.

"Foil" or "leaf" layer..can be beaten "gold leaf" or any metallic "leaf"..Singer movie looks like Gold leaf is used..sheet size corresponds..sheets of gold leaf used to be bigger than they are now..most gold leaf used worldwide now comes from Australian goldmines and is beaten to "leaf" and sold by Chinese companies to world market.

"Size layer"..layer of transparent slightly sticky varnish/glue mix to hold onto any foil or "leaf" layer.

"Line work".. layer of additional colour ( if say  you have a black outline with a red inner line or colour area.. Singer "red eye" domestic machine decals for example..every additional colour requires another additional layer.

Halftone layer...printed in closely spaced black dots of varying sizes ( known as "halftone grid" )  to give 3D relief effect

"Line work" layer...( the drawing layer with the swirls , design outlines or lettering outlines.

Colour tinted clear layer.. if required

Transparent clear layer... that is only lightly attached to the paper, rubbing from the outside of the paper support, or water can allow separation from the paper.

Base layer of paper support,... often similar to grease proof cooking paper, separates from any clear layer easily..

 

Of course to make the decal you actually do that in the reverse order..beginning with the paper layer. and go back up that list..The Transparent clear layer  can be very hard wearing , and may not need any clear coating or varnishing after the decal has been applied..and it can be quite thick..as long as it detaches from the backing paper when burnished.

Very high grade decals used to be made this way..letraset for example..some companies still produce gold foil decals.

I think that the replica decal company at keesew and others just use gold coloured pigments ( screen printed decals ) but you could also use polyester film foil like for hot stamping.Whether there would be a worthwhile market for real foil decals for sewing machines is another matter.

Yes..I have owned specialist printing company that amongst other things did some decals..and also been a signwriter ( brushes and airbrushes etc ) and gilder. still have all the equipment for signwriting , airbrushing, custom painting and gilding.

 

A little research shows that in the USA genuine leaf decoration work is largely around Fire engines, with some companies offering "custom" design services..reading a few sites these "decals" are more of a sticker ( vinyl based but with metal leaf or real gold leaf )..but you might be able to get a quote out of them if you can supply images..quite a few results came up when I searched, having done gold leaf, lettering and design , gilding etc on various surfaces in the "non vinyl" way ( as well as a whole load of vinyl graphics and lettering ) I'd say their examples look reasonable ,you might give these people a call.

http://lionet.paulconwayshields.com/

They seem to be competent..of course without actually seeing "in real life", this is not a customer recommendation..maybe also talk to some people who have custom gold leaf work on their Fire engines.

 

HTH :)

Hi Mikesc, 

This info is really impressive, and very technical as well, like Jimi, I don't quite understand the layers, I guess it's probably easier for someone like u in the printing industry will know and able to visualise the technical process. Although I'm keen to get as close to the original decals as possible( I think there are a few members here, like Al  has the same interest too), but I have never thought of using the gold leaf even though I knew the gold leaf was the original pigment used back then, my main concern was the typeface and the size, but we have come this far in discussing about the "original decals", and with a bit of contribution from everyone here, it makes our goal of reviving the original decals seems closer and positive. You make me curious and thinking about the gold leaf decal now, not sure if there's anyone locally can do that. 

As you mentioned, the gold foil for hot stamping could be another option, but how to transfer that on the decals? 

Keeler's decal is using gold ink which he mentioned in his listing on eBay. I have not seen the effect of Keeler's decal apply on a sewing machine, but I think constabulary and some other members here should have already tried it, so could you guys share with us how's the effect of the gold ink compared to the gold leaf? Similar or very different? 

Tony

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Looking at the decals posted by Jimi for the 29k33, and the original vintage decals from constabulary, both decals are again different, Constabulary's decals typeface has a depth facing upwards, while the decals on the 29k33 has depth facing downwards, moreover the tyeface is slimmer than Constabulary's decals. That means even folker, your decals is not the right one for the 45k, probably is meant for another model, so I might need to modified the one I traced out base on the 29k pic, that's a challenge.

Tony

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How close do you want to come? If you want a 100% restoration you already started with the wrong paint - I doubt (but who knows for sure) crackle coated 45K ever came with floral decals. So everything you do can only be a compromise or you just restore it "the way you like" and then most likely this machine will not look like the day it left the factory back in 19xx.... Its well possible that my decals were meant for bent wood cases but I do not know. But honestly - I would not spend too much time on decals. And before a machine looks stupid fancy I´d leave out the floral design. But thats just my point.

When a sewing machines comes in a nice original finish (no worn or chipped off paint and decals and the like ) I would not change it but when you have to strip the paint anyway and de-rust parts and stuff  I´d just make it look better than I found it and would not waste too much time because I KNOW it will never look as factory new again. It can look like new but not 100% original just like the day it left the factory. I usually paint my restored machines silver and add some sort of good looking decals.

some samples of my "restoration crimes" - some like it some don´t - I do ;)

I put them in a condition I could sell the machines in just the other day because I never know if a better looking or better working or better for my needs better suiting machine pops up just around the corner - if you know what I mean. Some like worn looking machine that show their age - I don´t. If my machines shows signs of use It should be my signs.

 

Edited by Constabulary

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Hi Constabulary,

Everyone has their personal preference when it comes to restoration, which you already mentioned in one of the earlier post and I do agree on that. There are people who don't even repaint their machines so long as it can sew, they won't be bother doing anything else. There are also people like Al, he not only repaint, but actually go all out to even find the original stand, customised the table top, and trying to find the original parts, even though he doesn't sew. Why I mentioned Al and not myself, as you already mentioned my paint colour is already not original, and none of our restoration work will come out looking like the day it came out of the factory back in 19xx, that I'm sure everyone here knows, but in my earlier post I already mentioned I like both crinkled and original shinny paint, but I choose crinkled in the end and I'm glad I did that even thought that's not the original colour. I'm not someone who will repaint my machine with fancy colour, like red or blue for example, but I'm very sure someone will like that kind of restoration. This restoration shouldn't be stressful, it should be fun. I never expect I will get so much info and knowledge starting this topic and getting to know all you guys here. Thank you everyone for the info and sharing. 

Tony

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Hi Constabulary,

Your restoration work is excellent! Well done! I'm sure you love silver colour very much, I can imagine there's a set of cast iron warriors dressing in metallic silver in your workshop.

Tony

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Sure it´s personal preference I just wondered why spending so much time on decal details. Seems I had a weak moment :lol: - I should have been understanding - or it was too early in the morning ;). But of course the crackle coating makes it more difficult to apply. I think you really need a quite thin foil to "squeeze" the foil into the crackles. Even better would be some sort of "no foil decals" or what ever it is called. Is there probably some sort of gold flake / gold paint based decal foil you can run through a laser printer?

BTW - I tried VHT crackle spray paint - takes looooooooooong time to dry but when you put the painted part into an oven or apply heat it crackles even better (unfortunately I do not have a sewing machine size oven:lol:) Will do some more testing. A lot seem to depend on how thick you spray on the single coats.

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Hi Constabulary,

LW trash treasures did mention about a setting solution which helps decal to stick better on an irregular surface, so we can try applying this solution before sticking on the decals on crinkle finish. Below is the link by trash treasure:

https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Setting-Solution-Microscale-Industries/dp/B0006O9K5Q

The VHT seller told me if I don't have an oven, I can leave the sprayed surface under the sun, it will dry to the touch overnight, but will still take a few days to fully dry. Personally I spray my machine indoor, I tried drying with the hairdryer and I also tried leaving it to dry naturally. With the hairdryer, it will get an even crinkle finish, when I left it to dry, the crinkle finish became uneven and rough, so it depends what kind of effect you want to achieve. You are right, the first coat must be thick, it's recommended to spray at least 7 layers of paint for the first time. I think I sprayed more than 7 layers. After the first spray, wait for the crinkle to form, then you can always respray again on areas you think the crinkle finish is not enough and always remember to spray in different direction unlike normal spray paint where you need to spray in one direction to get the smoothness. When spraying the underside of the machine, you need to tilt it to one side instead of spraying with the spray can nozzle facing upwards, this will help with better crinkle finish. Anyway, have fun experiencing, when it's fully dry its pretty strong and should last a very long time. Hope this help

Tony

 

 

 

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By the way I'm living in a tropical country, so the weather here is usually warm and humid, in cold weather it will probably slow down the drying process and affect the crinkle finish. You can might want to consider using the hairdryer. 

Tony

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 I have attached 2 sets of tracing of the decals, the 1st one is a tracing done with the reference from Constabulary's vintage decals, the 2nd one is a modification of Constabulary's decals base on Jimi's post for the 29k33 decals, hope to hear everyone's comment.

TonyIMG_2933.JPG.600311d621e70f8d91446fd2eab94a67.JPGIMG_2934.JPG.f943536429a24cde933ee23d766d2799.JPG

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Evo160K   

For those who like a "crinkle" type finish, you might want to take a look at Harley-Davidson's textured aerosol paint, p/n 98606BF.                                                                       https://www.harley-davidson.com/store/touch-up-paint-pa-15-98606bf--1

I personally have used it on my Harley engine for 3-4 years since it was introduced.  It develops a very fine and uniform texture without heat that I think would look excellent on a Singer.  I used to use Harley's Wrinkle Finish, p/n  98606CJ which dried with a more wrinkled texture, depending upon whether you air dried it or heated it, but then converted to the textured paint once I tried it.  Coincidently I don't see the wrinkle paint offered any longer, so others might have switched also.  The stuff is outrageously expensive for a 12 oz can, but it's the nicest I've seen.

Because it's so expensive at $23.00 a can, you might want to take a small, clean, sample piece of metal to your local Harley dealer and ask the service dept if they would mind spraying the sample for you.  I'm reasonably certain they would.  If not, take a look at the engines on the showroom floor and decide.

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Evo160K   

Tony,

Nicely done.  Thanks for your efforts.

I like the shape of the letters better in the first tracing, but the shading/half-tone? better in the second tracing.  Since the arm of the 29K33 appears slimmer than the arms of the 45K's, might that size differential be influencing the shape of the letters, or do you think it has more to do with style changes through the years?

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WOW - well done Tony :o the font looks awesome!!!

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2 hours ago, Evo160K said:

Tony,

Nicely done.  Thanks for your efforts.

I like the shape of the letters better in the first tracing, but the shading/half-tone? better in the second tracing.  Since the arm of the 29K33 appears slimmer than the arms of the 45K's, might that size differential be influencing the shape of the letters, or do you think it has more to do with style changes through the years?

Hi Al,

Judging from the 2 pics posted by Jimi, it seems like the 29k and 45k shared the same kind of decals. The typeface looks pretty similar, but I can't determine the size base on the pic. From the pic I feel that the typeface seems like slimmer than the one I had traced out. If you see carefully on the decals of the 29k, there is depth/shading, but if I'm to print it on decals I will change the colour to gold of course, different shades of gold so that we can see the depth. 

I doubt I can find anyone locally to input the gold leaf pigment, and I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay the price for it, so I think for now I will just stick to gold ink from the printer. 

Tony

1 hour ago, Constabulary said:

WOW - well done Tony :o the font looks awesome!!!

All thanks to your vintage decals and thanks to Al for sharing it with me. This is what makes this forum amazing!!!

Tony

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I was not thinking.... I have a 132K on my shelf waiting for "modification" and it has a nice clear original decal - I will take pictures later and take some measures....

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Evo160K   
15 minutes ago, Parfektionisto said:

 From the pic I feel that the typeface seems like slimmer than the one I had traced out. If you see carefully on the decals of the 29k, there is depth/shading, but if I'm to print it on decals I will change the colour to gold of course, different shades of gold so that we can see the depth.

I doubt I can find anyone locally to input the gold leaf pigment, and I'm not sure if I'm willing to pay the price for it, so I think for now I will just stick to gold ink from the printer.

Tony,                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Yes,  I find the depth/shading on the 29K attractive.....seems more vintage.  How do you think that depth/shading would look with the one you traced out?  For my purposes gold paint from the printer would be fine.


 

 

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1 hour ago, Parfektionisto said:

Judging from the 2 pics posted by Jimi, it seems like the 29k and 45k shared the same kind of decals. The typeface looks pretty similar, but I can't determine the size base on the pic

These are the decal from my 132K - its actually a 1948 made machine. Its a bit different but maybe it helps

 

IMG_2342.JPG

IMG_2343.JPG

IMG_2344.JPG

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Evo160K   

Constabulary,

Very helpful, thank you.

Would you mind also posting a couple of detailed pictures of the "Manufactured By The Singer Manufacturing Co" decal on the top of the arm of your 132K?  I believe Tony wants to see that decal also.  Thanks a lot.

Edited by Evo160K

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dikman   

Constabulary, to me in those photos they are made with the light source appearing to come from below (shading on the top edge) and the shading looks like a gray, rather than black. It also looks like there might be a slight "bevelling effect", to give greater depth, but it's hard to tell from the photos.

I never realised the subtlety of Singer markings before!

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jimi   

45k21

DSC_0258.thumb.JPG.a7b1e551733e759b8698d76e42787f15.JPGDSC_0257.thumb.JPG.ab781d869ac8d6aaa357fe311e315d47.JPG

29k, same size to me?

DSC_0261.thumb.JPG.379896118dca18a2047cc8fb0feacf5e.JPG

sorry for the picture quality today but they both measure the same, 97MM

DSC_0261.thumb.JPG.5ea13f792b85da386078af2514bbe819.JPG

 

Edited by jimi

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jimi   

RESIST Folker! don´t spray that nice looking 132k silver!! :specool:

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Thank you everyone for the detail pics and measurements. Jimi, your 45k21 decal is different from the 29k33 decals you posted previously, the alphabet "R" is diffferent and the shading is different too. I guess your 45k21 decals is a later version. Constabulary, your 132k decals seems to be the same as Jimi's 45k21, probably they were manufactured around the time. I think the decals with the special "R" might be longer in length than the decals posted here, could someone with that special "R" decals kindly help by posting the measurement here? By the way, as Dikman said, is the shading grey in colour, or a different shades of gold?

Jimi, could you kindly provide the measurements of the " the Singer manufacturing co" from your 45k21?

Tony

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Constabulary, your 132k seems ok, paint and decals still intact and looking good, are you really going to change the colour?

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When I bought my 45k, it's working perfectly but the condition was really bad and very dirty, that's why I have to restored it. It's already lucky to be able to find one, this machines are very hard to come by in my country. Beside the decals I'm also looking for the stand, anyone come across one pls let me know. IMG_2603.thumb.JPG.6ec45234edf71d73c98de7a967293bdc.JPG

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2 hours ago, Parfektionisto said:

Constabulary, your 132k seems ok, paint and decals still intact and looking good, are you really going to change the colour?

NO WAY - ha ha - Jimi just bothers me a bit ;) with this because I paint most of my restored machines silver and put on black decals. THIS one will stay as is and because the original paint job + decals are very nice I will try to turn it into a 132K6? Why? Because the parts for putting it back into its original configuration are no longer available and I have no use for a machine with a trimming device. BUT it has a lot similarities with the 132K6 and lost of K6 parts are still available.... sooo thats a future project.... This was my original post reg. this 132K.

 

Your 45K looks very nice with this crackle coating :spoton: But I think I would have painted the flat bed with glossy black

Reg. 132K decals - yes shading looks gray. Most likely you would not see a black shading on a black machine.

Edited by Constabulary

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