koreric75

S&W .357 K-frame, used Simmons Holster tutorial

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So I've almost finished one up and let me tell you, it was a bear...I went back and did some searching on welts and what not as by the time I got er together that thing barely fit under the cb3200!  Now I am usually pretty good at following instructions, 20+ years of military starting out in the missile maintenance career field, so a  Technical Order (T.O.) and numerous Haynes & Chilton manuals....I believe there was a recent topic titled "am I the only one"...lol, so on this one i had a break in construction after pattern making and before cutting and sure as sh#t I come back slap that pattern down and cut 'er out for a righty again instead of a lefty :blink: so instead of recutting, I decided if i lined it I could still be ok, the first piece was 8/9 oz so a 4/5 oz liner and bammo left handed holster problem solved...right?  Not exactly, when I made the pattern I didn't account for an extra 4/5oz, so then I thought, no biggie, I can just add a little welt for the trigger loop area and that should do er up good, well, it worked out, even though I didn't plan on using welts as I didn't want it to be that thick.  

now  to my next brainfart, also referenced another post about this, sewing uphill/downhill, I had already set my stitch length longer from when I sewed the liner on, tested with some scraps to get the width of two layers of 8/9 & 4/5 oz and set to stitching, but...yep, forgot about that hill for the welt!!!! dammit...to top it all off, I got a little shaky while edging the side with a dauber and got a little on the top...this left a light area and spot on the front so i figured, shoot, i'll just follow the contour of the stitch line and darken the whole thing up, didn't work out, ended up making it butt ugly, I'm hoping after work today I can use a little darker and airbrush a little sunburst around the edge if not, i guess I'll have a nice looking and perfect fitting left handed holster for a 357, a black one...lol.  Good news is, i learned alot, and will be adding about 3/16-1/4" to my patterns near the trigger guard and try it without welts.

references...and pic from my attempt below... @JLSleather @bushpilotmexico

 

 

 Mine ended up like this with the welts, after I skived the 2d one down alot....

tzxJT4M.jpg

Before and after pics of the dye fiasco...

P22lPPZ.jpgyUytEKD.jpg

Where I shoulda stopped and thought about things...before messing it up...actually looking at it, I had already boogered the stitch line area from trying to get the cb3200 pucker marks and track marks to lay down a little, used a modeling tool and wooden handle to try and blend...lol

BxsTyTD.jpg?1

added pic of pattern...

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Edited by koreric75
added one more pic...

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Very smooth looking piece at the end of all your work.

I find with most projects, if I don't have to re-evaluate, alter, redesign or adjust the goal posts ... I am asleep, dreaming of "how I want things to be"!

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I think it's a pretty great effort, bro.

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Given that photos don't always show things as they really are (light/shadows/colour etc) that looks pretty good to me!

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I never did see an ACTUAL answer about welts 'n' fillers ('they do stuff" is not an answer), but I did think that Jim's article was worth reading.  

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Thanks @dikman, I have noticed that the way the light hits, and the type of light it's under (natural sunlight, lamps, different bulbs etc do affect the color quite a bit)...I couldn't stand that lighter reddish color and dark spots around the border so decided to "fix it"...but It seemed like what i was doing was only making it more red and the spots even darker...so I thought, what offsets red in a brown??? I think green was the answer, so added a little, not sure that was the right way to go....It is a deeper color, but from some angles i swear it looks green to me...lol, reminds me of the old tv when you'd mess with the color controls, once you did it you could never really get it the way you wanted... here's the color i see when i look at it, and the color i hope it is when someone else looks at it, you can tell on the white area of the pattern and cutting mat the difference a little shadow makes.

1B1C0xCm.jpg2bNPajhm.jpg

 

@JLSleather I think i understand, adding a strip of leather in just because didn't make much sense to me either, a lot of tutorials leave out the why.  I found this earlier on from a pattern pack from Tandy that gave some explanation.  I don't know if it's an "answer" but at least it gives a theory behind the why?  I think I still have a strong urge to have a holster fit like a well formed boot, and anyone that were to try and wear my boot, same size or not wouldn't find it quite as comfortable or fitted, same for the holster...it's for that specific pistol or revolver.  When reading below it would seem to me that the holster is truly just a big ol pocket you can flop any six shooter of similar size in and have wiggle room, a safety strap keeps it in place  for retention...easy draw/fit and protection of the bluing seem to be the answer to why a filler.  The problem for me is, if I make the holster "fit" the gun when making the template, adding in a 1/2" or 3/8" of leather strip at the trigger or down the length etc, the gun wouldn't fit any more, unless I factor that width in while making the template.  I could see how you could use this to get away with making a little narrower pocket width wise, but it makes more sense to me that my trigger guard doesn't taper down to nothing, it sits center line of the width of the gun so if my holster tapers down to 0 at the trigger guard one of three things i can think to do, 1. I made the holster wide enough to afford room for the trigger guard + extra space for the seam to taper down at an angle past the trigger guard or 2. I mold the trigger guard into the leather and the seam is close fit to it...or 3. make the holster with the trigger guard exposed.

Looking at the difference in the one I made and the one on the cover of Jim's tutorial, I covered way more trigger guard and only stitched the main seam to the hole before the curve back over the trigger guard starts.  In Jims his leather cuts low across the trigger guard and the trigger is exposed (blue line below) and on the tandy pattern the trigger guard has the leather kinda follow the contour of the trigger guard and the trigger exposed (green line).  The other thing i was worried about was the sights on this one, the front is tall dual ramp and rear a blade type with a v, i wanted to leave room inside the toe end for the tall sight and not cover the rear at all as it looks like it'd just cut into the liner.

Sorry for yet another novel, I appreciate all who take the time to read through and offer advice, and honestly taking the time to write these helps me both gain insight from the long time craftsmen here and makes me slow down and work through a thought process  and be able to refer back and not have to decipher my chicken scratch...lol.

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ref page excerpts from:6031-00 Holster and Gun Belt Patter Pack & Making the Cowboy Holster by Jim Simmons.

vdzK9NK.png  6EYp6rx.pngRYUsLv6.jpgP3WmALO.jpg

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I 'get' fillers / welts... those pics are in a lot of the old books (this is STILL a trait of leather books - sell you a book, then put a new cover on the same info and sell it to you again).  I was talking about Stohlman's note - p 23 "fillers are recommended for this type of holster".  What "type" of holster?

I don't mind that nobody knows, don't even mind that so many refuse to say that they don't know either ;)

1 hour ago, koreric75 said:

if I make the holster "fit" the gun when making the template, adding in a 1/2" or 3/8" of leather strip at the trigger or down the length etc, the gun wouldn't fit any more, unless I factor that width in while making the template.

Correct.  Just not everyone will say that.  Not sure why nearly EVERY discussion of making a pattern has you tracing the gun and adding 3/4", regardless of the model. Then to say "this type of holster" as if it were different from any of the others ...

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2 hours ago, JLSleather said:

I 'get' fillers / welts... those pics are in a lot of the old books (this is STILL a trait of leather books - sell you a book, then put a new cover on the same info and sell it to you again).  I was talking about Stohlman's note - p 23 "fillers are recommended for this type of holster".  What "type" of holster?

I don't mind that nobody knows, don't even mind that so many refuse to say that they don't know either

Aha, I see now what you're saying...

2 hours ago, JLSleather said:

Correct.  Just not everyone will say that.  Not sure why nearly EVERY discussion of making a pattern has you tracing the gun and adding 3/4", regardless of the model. Then to say "this type of holster" as if it were different from any of the others ...

Yep, I'm tracking... I don't have the book, just a couple of pattern packs in e format,     Allot of the info and tutilage I've had has been from YouTube videos and forums, a few discounted pattern packs etc, so if something is left out or missing I really can't get too upset, beggars and choosers and all, this makes me appreciate the folks that go out of their way to help out, any are precise and informative about it, so when I get to a point where I need to buy something, I'm going there first, and if someone asks for help, I'll do my best to offer it up if I feel I have enough valuable to give.

It reminds me of fishing a little, starting out I would get  pointers, maybe someone would tell me a good spot to try or a bait to use, but usually not their best spot or secret weapon baits lol... But enough to get started, some will wear that spot or bait out, others will see the patterns and look for changes and improvements or tweaks to the pattern and develop their own style.

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Free (or next to free) is good - I got lots of stuff that came with a box of something at an auction, or estate sale, etc.

Untitled-1.jpgI mentioned this pic, and got some kind of conversation about what some old dude did when he was 7, or something like that :rofl:

 

jm.jpgDSC00237.jpgStill, there's some good stuff in those old things you find in closets and attics (state of the art in 1952!). 

 

I STILL get asked to make some of the holsters from that book, and made some others from those 'fold outs" just because I liked them - plus, it was nice to actually MAKE the rigs, then try the fit on OTHER pistols than what they paper said they were for - there's still some learnin's in there!

Edited by JLSleather

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Course, that Glock 19 didn't exist back then, but your 1911 did ;)

Gk19shark.jpgSpr1911_05.jpg

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Koreric, that left photo could have the very faintest tinge of green in it - maybe. I've tried a few Feibing's "brown" dyes and all appeared to have faint reddish undertones so based on recommendations here I tried Walnut and at least that is BROWN.

As for welts/fillers, I've never bothered with them as wet forming around the actual revolver gave me the fit I needed. Having said that, a chap has asked me to make a crossdraw holster that matches his existing pair, no real problem but they have a bloody thick welt in them! I'll probably fit a welt, but not quite as thick to make it easier for me.

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On 5/15/2018 at 6:04 PM, dikman said:

Koreric, that left photo could have the very faintest tinge of green in it - maybe. I've tried a few Feibing's "brown" dyes and all appeared to have faint reddish undertones so based on recommendations here I tried Walnut and at least that is BROWN.

As for welts/fillers, I've never bothered with them as wet forming around the actual revolver gave me the fit I needed. Having said that, a chap has asked me to make a crossdraw holster that matches his existing pair, no real problem but they have a bloody thick welt in them! I'll probably fit a welt, but not quite as thick to make it easier for me.

Thanks @dikman!, I was beginning to think it was just me, showed it to the feller I'm making it for, he said he couldn't see it, wife thinks i'm crazy...lol, I asked him if he wanted me to get the holster loop to match, he said no way...he likes the way it's offset from the holster, he also thought the hangman's noose hammer loop was a cool touch....I did get it to soften some after hitting with some more dark brown with the airbrush and then sealed with resolene and buffed the heck out of it...

P.S. @nstarleatherI have put a piece of that hair on hide to good use...non-reflective backdrop...lol

R3ONqE2m.jpg9xLz7e1m.jpgHHy3rtVm.jpg

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